CE Liverpool Cathedral Wed, July 2nd 2014

[DracoM]

CE Liverpool Cathedral



Order of Service:


Introit: Jubilate Deo (Gabrieli)
Responses: Rose
Psalms: 12, 13, 14 (Wilton; Day; Stanford)
First Lesson: Isaiah 35
Canticles: Howells in G
Second Lesson: Hebrews 10: 35 – 11:1
Anthem: Coronation Te Deum (Walton)



Organ Voluntary: Fanfare (Whitlock)



Daniel Bishop (Associate Organist)
David Poulter (Director of Music)

[DracoM]

Reminder: today @ 3.30 p.m.

[mw963]

I avoid commenting on the singing on these shows as there are so many on here who know so much more about it than I do, but would I be being unfair if I described the balance on the organ as - at best - muddy?

I know it's a big place, I know it's a big organ, but clarity was hardly the watchword in what I heard of it. There *are* technical ways round a problem like this, but I didn't hear much evidence of them on this broadcast.

I might detest poor Mr Leighton's music, but I'm a big fan of dear Percy so I whacked the level up for the voluntary. And I could hardly make head or tail of it (and it's a piece I know well). It was actually better at a lower level but even so I didn't really enjoy it.....

I should stress that this was NOT down to the (excellent) playing, and maybe my ears are finally packing up, but it was all a bit disappointing, at least for me.

As I say, maybe it was just me.....

[Gweefry]

Quite a sing – and the Walton beautifully and thrillingly done. Not often you get to hear the big tuba AND the Trompette Militaire at Choral Evensong! Splendid accompaniment by Daniel Bishop.

I was impressed by the balance of the recording – getting a semi-chorus of treble voices in focus straight after a blast of high pressure reeds must, I think, be tricky to get right in the vast spaces of Liverpool.

A suitably festal Jubilate to open, confidently presented psalms (again with an imaginative accompaniment) and very nicely judged Howells all add up to a most inspiring Evensong.

[Gweefry]

I avoid commenting on the singing on these shows as there are so many on here who know so much more about it than I do, but would I be being unfair if I described the balance on the organ as - at best - muddy?

You make an interesting point. Having been a regular visitor over a number of years to the bank holiday recitals, I think that the sound of the organ from the broadcast represents pretty accurately what's heard from the Central Space to the west of the transepts. I'm sure that, with closer mic-ing, it would be possible to get a much “cleaner” sound but that wouldn't actually be what anyone would normally be able to hear in situ. I suppose it depends on whether you're looking for a concert performance recording or a reasonable approximation of what could be heard by the person in the pew.

[Lento]

Having heard Ian Tracey on the radio (some time ago) talking about the co-ordination challenges in that building, I was amazed how "together" it all sounded!

[DracoM]

Not a trace of a Scouse accent anywhere. Hmm.

Singing in so huge an acoustic is both exciting and daunting: exciting that mighty noise can be so satisfying to whack out and hear coming back up the nave. Daunting in that closer to, blurred entrees are still apparent. I suspect a choir just might get into the belief that as long as the middle of the phrase is together, that's what counts. The second set of responses, I fear were a case in point. Nevertheless, it was good to hear the treble line luxuriating in the way the building carried its sound. Yet, overall, it did sound a bit muddy and distant all round. Inevitable, I suppose? They certainly attacked the Walton.

I fully understand the musical staff's reasoning for that repertoire, but IMO it was maybe a bit regrettable that there was so much hefty organ. All those pieces in the order of service required huge organ behind them, and in a broadcast there are week by week quite enough problems balancing organ against choir anyway, but in Liverpool, such challenges are hugely magnified. It would have been so good to hear more a cappella, from the choir, and the BIG organ saved for the gigantic Whitlock vol.

[mw963]

You make an interesting point. Having been a regular visitor over a number of years to the bank holiday recitals, I think that the sound of the organ from the broadcast represents pretty accurately what's heard from the Central Space to the west of the transepts. I'm sure that, with closer mic-ing, it would be possible to get a much “cleaner” sound but that wouldn't actually be what anyone would normally be able to hear in situ. I suppose it depends on whether you're looking for a concert performance recording or a reasonable approximation of what could be heard by the person in the pew.

I suspected that a "mere" mortal present there would have heard something similar, and thanks for the confirmation. FWIW I think it would have been "acceptable" to rig and use some mics specifically for the voluntary and give the listener as good a sound as possible, particularly in such a richly textured piece. After all, that's what's done by the BBC at most concert venues (think RAH, particularly before the acoustic improvements carried out in the early 70s) where listening at home "got you the best seat in the house".

But I entirely accept that some others might not agree, and as has been said the technical difficulties of matching choir with organ were better handled.

[chitreb]

Daunting in that closer to, blurred entrees are still apparent. I suspect a choir just might get into the belief that as long as the middle of the phrase is together, that's what counts. The second set of responses, I fear were a case in point.

I must have been listening to a different broadcast. I didn't hear that at all (on the iPlayer version).

Overall some lovely sounds, although I accept that the acoustics of the building led to lack of clarity in some places.

[DracoM]

I suspected that a "mere" mortal present there would have heard something similar, and thanks for the confirmation. FWIW I think it would have been "acceptable" to rig and use some mics specifically for the voluntary and give the listener as good a sound as possible, particularly in such a richly textured piece. After all, that's what's done by the BBC at most concert venues (think RAH, particularly before the acoustic improvements carried out in the early 70s) where listening at home "got you the best seat in the house".

But I entirely accept that some others might not agree, and as has been said the technical difficulties of matching choir with organ were better handled.

Problem is probably money. What you suggest would possibly double the rig needed in such a v.diff place. Liverpool Cath is not all that much used for LIVE tx, and one imagines that in regularly visited places, the BBC would expect to have a likely map of fixed rig points they would usually use eg RAH, RFH, Bridgwater Hall, St P's and WAbbey etc.

[mopsus]

The Gabrieli can be done unaccompanied (and I have performed it that way), but I noticed it had light organ accompaniment here. (Not an early music expert, but I suspect originally brass instruments doubled or replaced some of the vocal lines?) It is a big sing.

[ardcarp]

Quite a sing – and the Walton beautifully and thrillingly done. Not often you get to hear the big tuba AND the Trompette Militaire at Choral Evensong! Splendid accompaniment by Daniel Bishop.

I was impressed by the balance of the recording – getting a semi-chorus of treble voices in focus straight after a blast of high pressure reeds must, I think, be tricky to get right in the vast spaces of Liverpool.

A suitably festal Jubilate to open, confidently presented psalms (again with an imaginative accompaniment) and very nicely judged Howells all add up to a most inspiring Evensong.

I absolutely endorse all that, Gweefry. Great to hear headvoices hitting loud high notes without any shouting, Organ muddy? No. Just a great Willis sounding as it ought in Howells and Walton. I think back to CEs of the past from Liverpool, when there was a big wash of organ sound and a gentle hoot reminding us occasionally that a choir was there. None of that today. A splendid and at times thrilling CE.

[jean]

Not a trace of a Scouse accent anywhere. Hmm.

Who did you expect to hear a Scouse accent from?

[DracoM]

Oh, FGS, jean.............

[jean]

Well, you made the comment!