Songs of Praise Choir of the Year Competition

[Oldcrofter]

Very much agree, Mary, (msg 4) that it is a disgrace that arrangers are not credited. Good arrangers use their technical skill and experience and knowledge of the voices for which the music is set that brings new life to the original music and gives the choir the chance to shine. Not-so-good arrangers do not do justice to the original.

Arrangers are professionals - many are composers too - and that is, in part, their livelihood. They deserve to be credited so that other choirs will buy their work if they like the arrangement.

[mangerton]

(Albert Hay Malotte)

Thank you. Never heard of him. I have to say I thought it was awful.

For reasons still not entirely clear, and to universal disapproval, my church choir sang that setting recently. I said he wrote like that because he didn't get out much.* Unsurprisingly, that comment met with more universal disapproval, and I was instructed to get my coat.

* Paronomasia, based on Sc dialect.

[Oldcrofter]

Well, Mary, (msg 2) it was Gareth Malone who said they were in the English choral tradition of the 19th c. I think Hereford had a mature, well-trained sound and maybe we hear very little (too little ?) of mature young women singing.

I accept, of course, you may not like the timbre - old-fashioned, traditional, over-blown, wobbly/warbly - whatever adjective you would use.

But I think that the quality is there, even if it's not particularly to your taste (like the BBC Singers).

Here's a couple of examples - and I think they have that mature, confident sound that Hereford have. Les Sirenes are undergraduates and Calgary school age:

Les Sirenes
hhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp8EQzw979g

Calgary Girls' Choir

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8MU4CH5GTI

[Simon Biazeck]

Well, Mary, (msg 2) it was Gareth Malone who said they were in the English choral tradition of the 19th c. I think Hereford had a mature, well-trained sound and maybe we hear very little (too little ?) of mature young women singing.

I accept, of course, you may not like the timbre - old-fashioned, traditional, over-blown, wobbly/warbly - whatever adjective you would use.

But I think that the quality is there, even if it's not particularly to your taste (like the BBC Singers).

Here's a couple of examples - and I think they have that mature, confident sound that Hereford have. Les Sirenes are undergraduates and Calgary school age:

Les Sirenes
hhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp8EQzw979g

Calgary Girls' Choir
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8MU4CH5GTI

An excellent comment, and thanks for the link - they are stunning.

[Mary Chambers]

I did say that I thought the Hereford choir were efficient. I still don't like the sound at all. I don't think mature women have to sound like that, but because it has been out of fashion so long it will probably come back in. Like the BBC Singers, they sound more like a group of competing soloists than a choir. They don't blend.

[ardcarp]

There is a mixed professional choir called (something like) The Norwegian Soloists. I think they have eight voices, and they don't sound like that at all. Haven't time to find an example now.....

PS The only YuoTube track I can find is of one of their sopranos sounding like a (vg) soprano soloist doing some Valen.

[Oldcrofter]

Ardcarp (msg 21, re Det Norske Solistkor)

There's a video on their home page:

http://solistkoret.no/en/about-the-norwegian-soloists-choir/

And a Radio 3 review of their CD 'Refractions'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdm0G-Ng56U

As you say, a mixed, professional choir so I find it difficult to compare them with amateur girls' and mixed choirs.

My point would be that, for example, the Hereford girls have the voice training to go on into high quality university and music college choirs and other ensembles with total confidence - if they want to at some later date. Most will read subjects other than music, but their choral training has been excellent and will be theirs for a lifetime.

Mary, you describe the choir as "efficient" - that's not an adjective I've heard applied to choral singing before. Do you mean a combination of 'hard-working' and 'competent' ?

[Mary Chambers]

Mary, you describe the choir as "efficient" - that's not an adjective I've heard applied to choral singing before. Do you mean a combination of 'hard-working' and 'competent' ?

I thought I'd posted a reply to this, but perhaps I only got as far as previewing it.

I doubt if I've ever used the adjective 'efficient' to describe a choir before, either! I meant that I immediately realised that the choir was doing what they were expected to do by their teacher, and doing it very well. They knew what they were doing. It's just that I dislike that style of vibrato-rich singing, particularly in a choir. To me it's an ugly sound that doesn't really blend. To their teacher and others, it obviously isn't. It's what they were aiming at. In many choirs it would be considered a disadvantage.

[Oldcrofter]

Thanks, Mary - at least we've eased a small way out of the perpetual chatter about choral evensong. And no, before anyone jumps in, I don't "hate" CE - just have no personal experience from my distant youth nor the ability to compare & contrast one cathedral choir with another.

I don't think any of the MDs of local choral societies I've sung with have ever tried to bring vibrato into the choir's performance, and I don't know if Gareth Malone has a CD of the 1874 Huddersfield Choral Society by which we could judge their degree of vibrato. It's certainly a disadvantage if there are one or two warblers in the sops or tenors - they stand out like sore thumbs !

[Mary Chambers]

I remember choral society choirs in the 1950s, '60s and '70s being full of people with heavy vibrato, all convinced they were wonderful singers. Then they mostly got weeded out by choir directors with more modern views. It's all a matter of fashion, really, and fashion changes.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I don't think any of the MDs of local choral societies I've sung with have ever tried to bring vibrato into the choir's performance, and I don't know if Gareth Malone has a CD of the 1874 Huddersfield Choral Society by which we could judge their degree of vibrato. It's certainly a disadvantage if there are one or two warblers in the sops or tenors - they stand out like sore thumbs !

Most choir directors try to reduce vibrato. Otherwise the result is like the BBC Singers of today, or the Luton Girls' Choir of old. (Incidentally I sing in rather a good choir. One day, the MD praised our sound, saying how well we blended. EA can never keep his mouth shut, and said: "unlike the BBC singers". At this point, one of the basses looked most unhappy, and said "My sister sings with them". )

[Magnificat]

[QUOTE]The gospel choir came from a state school, ardcarp. I always watch this if I remember, because I'm very interested in the state of music education. I agree about the difficulty of judging different styles, and I'm not at all happy about the panel of judges, either. Nor am I happy about the fact that it's a Songs of Praise competition. It should be for all schools./[QUOTE]

Mary,

Greycoat Hospital School is no bog standard comp though. It is a highly sort after Cof E comprehensive in London and has recently been the secondary school
chosen by Michael Gove for his daughter. He doesn't live anywhere near it and yet, surprise, surprise, managed to get her in!!. It has a very strong musical tradition and often sings school services in Westminster Abbey. The lack of ordinary state schools in this part of the competition was extremely disappointing.

VCC.

[mopsus]

Greycoat Hospital School is no bog standard comp though. It is a highly sort after Cof E comprehensive in London and has recently been the secondary school
chosen by Michael Gove for his daughter. He doesn't live anywhere near it and yet, surprise, surprise, managed to get her in!!. It has a very strong musical tradition and often sings school services in Westminster Abbey. The lack of ordinary state schools in this part of the competition was extremely disappointing.
VCC.

They recently sang a weekend of services in Bath Abbey, also giving a short recital in my church.

[ardcarp]

I'm glad to say Highgate School won the senior section. Their performance was excellent, by far the most spirited, and the young lads singing tenor and bass did a splendid job.

But what about G.Malone's own choir, or to be more specific, one of the 'judges' singing a solo with it. A strange idea. I half hoped Susie Digby might give it marks out of ten.

[Mary Chambers]

I was glad Highgate won, too. Quite apart from the fact that they gave the best performance, I like any school choir that has boys in it to be encouraged - though that should not be a reason for positive discrimination.

As for Malone's own choir and soloist, I found the mute button very useful.

I found I couldn't haven't have an intelligent opinion about the winner of the junior section because I don't speak Welsh. I can tell, obviously, if they are blending and singing in tune, but I was surprised to hear one of the judges praising their word painting. How can one tell if one doesn't speak the language?

Above all, I wish they would sing better music. I'm sure they are capable of it.