The Choir - Last straw

[DracoM]

Interesting that in EMS today, we had the Hilliard talking about their experiences with Arvo Part. Illuminating.

This p.m., Jonathan Dove was talking in The Choir about Part and his awe at what it requires to sing it.
Pity The Choir / SM-P did not listen to exactly how an interview with professional musicians about complex material should be done.

[Gabriel Jackson]

I wonder if there is anyway of finding out whether The Choir, in its new format, has attracted a huge new listenership?

I have often wondered whether those vociferous critics of the new incarnation of The Choir speak for a majority of listeners, or not. It seems they don't, since the listenership has increased by 20 percent since the new format was introduced.

[french frank]

I have often wondered whether those vociferous critics of the new incarnation of The Choir speak for a majority of listeners, or not. It seems they don't, since the listenership has increased by 20 percent since the new format was introduced.

That assertion cries out for facts and figures. What date is being used for the introduction of the new format? What were the figures in the quarters leading up to the change and what were the figures for the quarters since?

In any case: a station that declares that ratings aren't the only measure of success can't claim they don't matter when they're poor but they do matter when they're good. The fact that appealing to a broader audience brings in a bigger audience than appealing to people who have nurtured a special interest for many years shouldn't suprise anyone. Does the film music programme get a bigger audience than the Early Music Show?

I hope the 'new, broader audience' appreciates new compositions ...

[Cockney Sparrow]

I have often wondered whether those vociferous critics of the new incarnation of The Choir speak for a majority of listeners, or not. It seems they don't, since the listenership has increased by 20 percent since the new format was introduced.

If that is correct, then it has become one of the programmes in the weave of daily programming where listeners don't switch off - so unchallenging, topical, easy listening.... etc (so might was well be Classic FM). Not, now, a program to expect expert, authoritative contributions, at time challenging and mostly illuminating.
Also, presumably it is doing rather well, as it lost listeners (if my own experience of not listening these days is anything to go on) so it has captured even more than 20% new audience. But its the eternal problem - popularise, and make it "easy listening" so it can get numbers - but does that fulfil the Public Service remit? If composer of the week, the Saturday music feature and CD Review goes the same way, I will only be checking the evening concerts as that is all I would, potentially, be listening to.
The reasons to defend the BBC (i.e. counterbalance the corporate excess/incompetence) get less all the time. The Murdoch onslaught (ostensibly checked by the hacking scandal) nonetheless will be advanced by their political puppets even more so, given that we are in the run up to an election - watch this space - chance to appoint new DG of the "right" political complexion, charter review, replace the totally incompetent Corporate Governance in the form of the useless BBC Trust.

[Gabriel Jackson]

In any case: a station that declares that ratings aren't the only measure of success can't claim they don't matter when they're poor but they do matter when they're good.

Ardcarp asked whether The Choir had attracted a huge new listenership, and the answer is that it has attracted new listeners. Whether 20 percent more is "huge" is not for me to say.

I hope the 'new, broader audience' appreciates new compositions ...

Why shouldn't they?

[Gabriel Jackson]

If that is correct,

It is

then it has become one of the programmes in the weave of daily programming where listeners don't switch off - so unchallenging, topical, easy listening.... etc (so might was well be Classic FM). Not, now, a program to expect expert, authoritative contributions, at time challenging and mostly illuminating.
Also, presumably it is doing rather well, as it lost listeners (if my own experience of not listening these days is anything to go on) so it has captured even more than 20% new audience.

Let me get this straight - if people don't like a programme and stop listening that's bad, but if people like it and listen in greater numbers that's bad too?

[french frank]

Ardcarp asked whether The Choir had attracted a huge new listenership, and the answer is that it has attracted new listeners. Whether 20 percent more is "huge" is not for me to say.

That doesn't answer the questions. Programme listening figures are not published and are exempt under the FOIA (the BBC refuses requests for information). So it's a question of who told you what, exactly? Since Radio 3's overall listening figures are either stationary or down (depending on what's being compared) an increase of 20% in one programme would indeed be "huge"; a reason why it needs to be clarified what figures are being compared.

Why shouldn't they?

Possibly for a similar reason that Classic FM listeners go for the familiar/traditional?

[Honoured Guest]

Ain't it a shame
Sparrers can't sing

[Honoured Guest]

Maybe folk who loved to wallow in Jarvis Cocker's musical choices at four on a Sunday afternoon, but are less keen on Iggy Pop's, are warming to The Choir. Welcome all!

[french frank]

Maybe folk who loved to wallow in Jarvis Cocker's musical choices at four on a Sunday afternoon, but are less keen on Iggy Pop's, are warming to The Choir. Welcome all!

Maybe, maybe, maybe. I'm still waiting to hear where the figure came from and what the "20% increase" is an increase on. Are they even comparing the same slots? In 2011 The Choir was on at 6.30, following Discovering Music (RIP); now it comes straight after Choral Evensong ...

[Gabriel Jackson]

Maybe, maybe, maybe. I'm still waiting to hear where the figure came from and what the "20% increase" is an increase on. Are they even comparing the same slots? In 2011 The Choir was on at 6.30, following Discovering Music (RIP); now it comes straight after Choral Evensong ...

You'll have a long wait I'm afraid. I'm not going into any more details. You either believe it or you don't. You seem not to want to believe it...

[Gabriel Jackson]

Possibly for a similar reason that Classic FM listeners go for the familiar/traditional?

Do they? Do listeners to The Choir also listen to Classic Fm?

[DracoM]

<< I'm not going into any more details. >>

Is that:
[a] because it's hearsay?
[b] an unverifiable figure given to you when it should not have been by a BBC / RAJAR exec?
[c] because you're scheduled to be on the show quite soon?

[french frank]

You'll have a long wait I'm afraid. I'm not going into any more details. You either believe it or you don't. You seem not to want to believe it...

It's not so much that I don't believe it as that it's a meaningless statistic to say a programme has had an increase of 20% if you don't explain what it's 20% more than. Radio 3 gained 95,000 more listeners this quarter: but only compared with last quarter (which was very poor). And that's still 76,000 less than the same quarter last year.

[french frank]

Do they?

If you mean, Do Classic FM listeners go for the familiar and the traditional: I refer you to the annual Hall of Fame

Do listeners to The Choir also listen to Classic Fm?

I don't know, but that wasn't the point. More relevant would be to ask whether listeners to The Choir also listen to Hear and Now, wouldn't it?