Church Choirs - creatures of the devil

[Guest]

The relationship between the clergy and church musicians, which has not always been sweetness and light, was the subject of a recent address to the 83rd festival of 'The Federation of Cathedral Old Choristers Associations' in St Albans by The Dean of St Albans, The Very Rev'd Dr Jeffrey John and which he illustrated by one of his favourite quotations by Philip Stubbes a very fierce Puritan clergyman:

'I say of music that it is very ill for young heads, alluring them to pusillanimity and loathsomeness of life. All music may be compared to honey and such sweet things, which do delight at first, but afterward make the stomach queasy and weak. So music may at first delight the ear but afterward it corrupteth and depraveth the mind, making it inclined to all manner of licentiousness. For who indeed be more bawdy than the company of music making men and singers? Who more loose minded, who such drunken sockets and parasites as they?

Therefore, sir, if you would have your son soft, smooth mouthed, affected to bawdry, scurrility, untimely talk and every kind of abomination, then set him, sir, to learn music and you shall not fail of your purpose.'

The Dean then went on to say that religion needed music; but music - at least religious music - also needed real religion and " I think we can boast a little here that the co-operation of clergy and musicians in cathedrals is one of the reasons why cathedrals are the one success story that the church could show over the last twenty years. Despite all the travails of the rest of the Church of England, cathedral worship has been growing and growing quite fast. So with that in mind can I say Down with Philip Stubbes and the Puritans and Hooray for all you drunken sockets and loose minded parasites that make up our cathedral choirs!"

VCC

[Vox Humana]

The relationship between the clergy and church musicians, which has not always been sweetness and light

Whenever this subject comes up I'm afraid the red mist descends and I find it impossible to remain rational. The cathedrals may be on safe ground for the foreseeable future, but it's a very different story in most parishes. I am reliably informed that there still are some parish churches that take music seriously and are prepared to encourage and support high standards, but, considering the way things have been heading for the last half century, I think their days are ultimately numbered. My view may be skewed by living in a benightedly puritan corner of the country where the church music situation may be unusually impoverished, but the following tale seems to me to encapsulate what is happening on a broader canvas. I live in a city with a population of just over a quarter of a million. We have a Roman Catholic cathedral and a city centre parish church used for civic ceremonies. The latter, a fairly unimposing building, has always had pretensions and recently managed to get itself elevated to minster status. In 1883 the parish magazine stated that the church had always been regarded as the local (Anglican) cathedral and asked why it should not have an efficient choir and a thoroughly choral service. And so it happened. By the early twentieth century it had a large choir of cathedral standard and almost fully choral services. It broadcast nationally once or twice. After WW2 the choral content diminished somewhat, but good standards were still maintained. In the 1980s the appointment of a new priest signalled a change. He wanted to move the music in a more popular direction. The Director of Music could see the way things were heading and (amicably) retired after about 33 years' service. A new DoM was appointed. His embracing of the more popular styles divided the church and the choir, there was a complete pastoral breakdown, and the vicar solved it by sacking the choir. That was effectively the end of the church's musical reputation.

A choir was reformed, but the new DoM moved on after about five years. The church duly replaced him and also appointed an organist. The new DoM was a good singer and a decent organist; the organist was an exceptionally fine player (no doubt attracted by the very large, four-manual organ). The choir was quite good, though it kept a low profile, never, for example, giving concerts. A few celebrity organ recitals were sponsored annually by a local businessman, the church having no interest whatsoever in such things. Indeed, the congregation and clergy gained a reputation for having no interest in music whatsoever, happy-clappiness having by now won the day. This situation obtained until fairly recently. A few years ago the organist died suddenly. He was not replaced and the DoM was left in sole charge. The businessman sponsoring the recitals then died and not long afterwards the DoM had a stroke. The church, now without any seriously competent organists or choirmaster, then entered an interregnum and made do with a member of the congregation who by all accounts could just about manage to play hymns. Offers of help from more competent organists were ignored, the church being happy to "make do". Recently a new priest was appointed. He soon appointed a new DoM - who turned out to be a violinist already involved with the church. His remit, I believe, is to get youngsters involved. I gather that it is still intended to appoint an organist, so the fact that the DoM is not one may not matter - we will see.

I am not in a position to know who in the church is driving the agenda, but this amateurish approach is undoubtedly due to a lack of concern for serious church music. And this from a city's primary church.

Elsewhere I hear from my organist friends nothing but tales of woe. Choral contributions stamped out. Concerts aimed at getting the churches known and used being discouraged or even impeded. The common priestly refrain, "Oh, we don't want to ape cathedrals," generally meaning, "I won't tolerate any choral music beyond a weekly anthem" (if that). Hymn numbers, often including a new, unknown Gumby Song, not being notified to the organist until late on Saturday nights - along with a complete lack of recognition by the priest that any rehearsal should be necessary: "Oh everyone can just pick it up as we go along!" The truth is that, in most churches, there is no serious appreciation of classical church music and no will (nor money) to invest in securing edifying standards of performance. It's all too formal, too expensive and totally irrelevant. What seems to be required musically is an atmosphere rather like a group of scouts sitting and singing songs around a camp fire. Given the nature of modern worship I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that the church is right and that this amateur attitude to music is probably entirely appropriate and fit for purpose - but it is no environment for a professional musician.

I have never met anyone who regards all church choir members as creatures of the devil (unlike organists!) It's rather that their musical offerings are not wanted and their only value is a visual one, by making processions look impressive and filling the chancel stalls.

[ardcarp]

VCC. Well The Very Rev'd JJ is obviously quite a wit and a talented public speaker. Thanks for posting that up. I hope cathedrals never forget how important good music is. As I've said before, a few clergy, albeit finely garbed, will not pull the crowds at Christmas and Easter!

Vox. Yours is a sad tale, and one which must be all too common around the country. What I can't understand is why a parish church thinks it can only provide one sort of service. OK, rock around the altar with guitars and drums sometimes, but at other times use a proper choir and proper music. There are a few churches I know (and I'm not practising in any sense of the word) where a good choir is maintained. And where boy and girl choristers are fostered too, then it's the best youth club in the parish.

I'm sure there will be more tales of woe on this thread, but let's hope for some good news too.

[Vox Humana]

Vox. Yours is a sad tale, and one which must be all too common around the country. What I can't understand is why a parish church thinks it can only provide one sort of service. OK, rock around the altar with guitars and drums sometimes, but at other times use a proper choir and proper music.

The church does in fact offer two different styles of worship, one led by a rock band. The church where I was last an organist (only briefly: I wanted to supplement my retirement income!) also had a supposedly traditional Communion service followed by an informal one led by a music group. It's a good compromise in principle, but what I particularly regret is that the "traditional" services everywhere (it seems) now have to include one or more worship songs that are anything but traditional. Fully traditional worship for those, like me, who dislike worship songs is hard to find nowadays - at least where I live.

[DracoM]

Q to churches who do mount the modern services: I know they count who is there, but I wonder if they note the number who stay away, and possibly never return? All very well congratulating themselves on ticking 'the yoof box', but at what cost? Do dioceses secretly check this, or do they convince themselves that it's all AOK?

[W.Kearns]

And what's really sad is that the people who stay away are often the ones who have attended the church year upon year for most of their lives.

[Vox Humana]

And what's really sad is that the people who stay away are often the ones who have attended the church year upon year for most of their lives.

This is very true. I mentioned above that I had a church job recently. When I first began there the church was in an interregnum under a lovely priest who had an efficient, professional approach and who was a joy to work with. It was in a town 26 miles from where I live, but it was worth the effort. I never expected the happiness to last, but when the new priest was appointed the choice turned out to be even worse than my worst nightmare. He was well known to our organists' association, having previously been a vicar on the outskirts of our city and, knowing that I was not so much happy-clappy as mumpy-grumpy, but they promptly opened a book on how long I would last. I am pleased to say that I exceeded all expectations by lasting fully two years, but it was hell, not so much because of the happy-clappiness as because of the managerial incompetence and lack of communication, consultation and co-operation that knee-capped not only the music, but every other aspect of church life. During the two years I was there I saw the congregation at the main Sunday morning Communion service dwindle from about 100 per week to around 70 - and many of those who are left are full of complaints. The priest's attitude is, "This is my style and people must learn to come with me or go elsewhere." I receive regular updates from the organist who succeeded me and from the choir. They speak of nothing but woes. The lovely assistant priest who was in charge when I arrived has had enough and taken himself off to a living elsewhere in the country. I hear that the church treasurer has gone and the churchwardens have both threatened to resign. To be honest, I think this particular case is an extreme one, but it is most certainly not without parallel elsewhere.

[decantor]

Vox H’s response to the OP has shown how vast a topic this – too big, perhaps, to be manageable in a forum’s thread, as there are so many different cases.

“We don’t want to ape the cathedrals”. Most cathedral choirs maintain astonishingly high standards, and, among those with any interest in the church and its music, these standards are well known through CDs, TV, radio, and personal experience. How can any parish church aspire to emulate that quality, or why would any music-minded worshipper settle for less when a short drive in the car will take them to the best? In sum, modern technology works against choral achievement at the local level, and promotes the role of the cathedral. Cathedrals are responding, and deserve their growing appeal.

Just as a school reflects its Headmaster, so a choir reflects its DoM. Inspirational DoMs are in short supply at parish level, but even then they need the wholehearted support of the clergy and the congregation, and probably of an extra organist too. With so many conditions to be met, it is hardly surprising that effective parish choirs are thin on the ground in an age when for many ‘music’ means Kylie Minogue and One Direction. Vox H (above) bears witness to the choral fragility. But parish choirs do exist – I hear of them often enough. St Giles’ church in Oxford has started an all-male choir, still with more men than boys, that sang an honest Evensong in Southwark cathedral; St Peter’s Wolverhampton sang wonderfully well in Canterbury cathedral; Reading Minster and others are gaining ground; St John’s Broughton is a long-running success story; there are others. These, like all, have their ups and downs, and depend entirely on the DoM’s passion and industry – and a fair slice of luck. They may be honourable exceptions, but they indicate what will and leadership can still achieve.

‘Happy-clappy’ works for some – it matches their idea of worship, and is often accompanied by good Christian works day by day. I attended the funeral of a lady (I refuse to say ‘woman’) whom I regarded with reverential respect; there were guitars, pipes, dancing, and songs rather than hymns. I found it hard to stomach, but her widower (an Archdeacon) and many of her friends were sure that they had seen her soul off to heaven. Heaven was assuredly hers, but my prejudice said ‘despite……’. But they were a genuine converse case: a four-part choir singing Byrd would not have met their needs.

Ignorance and disinterest can be as damaging to music as Puritanism – and are far more likely to harbour the devil. The sort of tensions that can exist at parish level in 2014 are not conducive to the communal effort needed to deliver a worthy liturgical choir, even where there is a DoM willing and able; competing pastimes, social fragmentation, and individualism have taken a toll. It was so different in my childhood days: men from 17 to 70 occupied the back stalls, while the front were overflowing with children expected to perform this singing service – and there were plenty left to act as servers. If it is harder now, so is success worthier, but we must cut our cloth realistically as well as hopefully.

[ardcarp]

“We don’t want to ape the cathedrals”. Most cathedral choirs maintain astonishingly high standards, and, among those with any interest in the church and its music, these standards are well known through CDs, TV, radio, and personal experience. How can any parish church aspire to emulate that quality, or why would any music-minded worshipper settle for less when a short drive in the car will take them to the best? In sum, modern technology works against choral achievement at the local level, and promotes the role of the cathedral.

I'm not sure it's a question of 'aping', Decantor. more aspiring. Parish churches that do employ a decent musician and allow decent music to flourish probably are hoping for standards that at least 'aspire' to cathedral music.
They probably have a congregation that appreciates it, and (in truth) might not be able to detect much difference between their choir on top form and the professional one at the Three Spires 20 miles away!

For the good parish choir to aspire to sing evensong at the diocesan seat during holiday periods is a motivating force which I guess we can both approve of.

[Magnificat]

‘Happy-clappy’ works for some – it matches their idea of worship, and is often accompanied by good Christian works day by day. I attended the funeral of a lady (I refuse to say ‘woman’) whom I regarded with reverential respect; there were guitars, pipes, dancing, and songs rather than hymns. I found it hard to stomach, but her widower (an Archdeacon) and many of her friends were sure that they had seen her soul off to heaven. Heaven was assuredly hers, but my prejudice said ‘despite……’. But they were a genuine converse case: a four-part choir singing Byrd would not have met their needs..

decantor

I went to my first ever Humanist funeral recently.

It was mainly eulogies and recollections of the deceased led by a very pleasant chap who advertised his services in local papers and contributions by family members. All very respectful but rather empty, which I suppose was appropriate.

The only music was when the proceedings ended with Vera Lynn singing 'We'll Meet Again' which.frankly, I thought most inappropriate considering he wouldn't have believed that at all.

The whole thing was so bleak that my wife and her sister, who are the dead man's cousins and believers, decided to call in to St Albans Abbey, since it was All Souls'-tide, and write his name in the cathedral's book of remembrance for those who had died and for whom prayers would be said at a special service which would also have music sung by their wonderful choir.

I also attended my first Quaker meeting which was also a funeral and consisted, as per their tradition, of silences and spoken tributes as and when the friends felt called to say something .

The deceased was a friend of mine who despite being a Quaker used to attend weekday boys' voices choral evensong at St Albans because she loved its meditative atmosphere and adored the singing. The meeting ended, as I knew it would because it had always been her wish, with a recording of the St Albans boys singing John Rutter's 'The Lord Bless You And Keep You' which was her great favourite. Personally I felt it appropriate to stand up during the silences and say the Nunc Dimitis which she herself had heard sung many times by the boys.

VCC