RFH organ

[edashtav]

for Messiaen to truly work, you do need the generous acoustic of a cathedral or vast Parisian church, so probably best avoided in the only marginally less shoebox acoustic of the revamped RFH.

Yes, the RFH would take the messi out of the great man, reducing him to a mere Anne.

London's place for Messaien is Westminster Cathedral - in modern parlance: "Messy Church".

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes, the RFH would take the messi out of the great man, reducing him to a mere Anne.

London's place for Messaien is Westminster Cathedral - in modern paralance "Messy Church".

I am very much looking forward to my RFH visit this Friday, going by an exhibition in the Clore Ballroom (below the main auditorium) which consists of some kind of ceilingward curved "keyboard", according to some friends, on which the public are invited to play the newly refurbished organ. They were hard-put to describe this, so maybe they were winding me up, but if anyone knows anything, please do let me know, in preparation for my visit!

[mercia]

sounds fascinating. When I go to the POATS website and click on interesting events, zilch happens perhaps one has to be registered

http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/whatson/festivals-series/pull-out-all-the-stops/productions

I think I heard someone on R3 mention an exhibit of a bicycle which one pedals to inflate some bellows (but I might have dreamt that)

[Serial_Apologist]

sounds fascinating. When I go to the POATS website and click on interesting events, zilch happens

http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/whatson/festivals-series/pull-out-all-the-stops/productions

perhaps one has to be registered

I'll notify people after Friday then...

[Mattbod]

I was up in London yesterday and had a look at the exhibition. Positive things were lots of nice documentation: invoices and correspondence between the builders, Downes and other figures involved as well as Downes' original scaling diagrams that were printed in "Baroque Tricks". There was also an old Yamaha electronic organ turned on so kids (and adults) could have a play which was a nice touch as I know kids love hands on stuff like that. The weird amusement sculptures were baffling though as was a sweet but basic film where little Durham and London Schoolkids explain the organ. A video by William Mc Vicker and Andrew Scott from H & H would have been better.

I wish I had gone to both Scott's and Trotter's recitals but heard them on the Radio. The Latry will be good but I think Messiaen is best in a clear yet big acoustic (i have Jennifer Bate at Beauvais) and am not the biggest fan of his anyway. Also the Widor 5 is beyond cliche now. Incidentally as I am writing this i am listening to Gillian Weir play Max Reger's Fantasie and Fugue in D moll and i can't hear much difference in acoustic between old and new. Weir's Priory recording is recommended BTW.

[LeMartinPecheur]

'Enjoyable' discussion on In Tune between Fafferty and Olivier Latry. Sean audibly on the edge of a seizure when Latry dared to say that not everything in the newly-restored organ blended perfectly. (I'd love to hear a big organ where this was the case - the acoustic equivalent of unseasoned mashed potato?)

Needless to say Fafferty wasn't brave enough to ask how this could possibly be the case. I'm guessing that the answer, or at any rate the diplomatic answer , would have been that it's like cooking: you can have all the finest ingredients in your kitchen but that really doesn't mean all possible combinations of them are toothsome.

[Mattbod]

Well there was a hint in the discussion with William McVicker and Thomas Trotter that adjustments were being made by Andrew Scott the Harrison voicer for an "an organist performing later on in the week". Who do you give more weight to, one of the world's finest organists or an ex accountant who managed to blag his way onto the BBC? Indeed the Radio 3 staff have shown themselves to be completely ignorant about organs and breathlessly sycophantic about the RFH organ. Thank goodness for William McVicker and the commentary of the organists themselves. Even William McVicker will admit that this organ has challenges because of its layout. Trotter said as much on Monday and William did not dispute him. The BBC guy was totally lost by the discussion though. As Trotter says you have the pedal organ right in front of you and obviously this will cause problems with balance especially with the big pedal reeds drawn: oh well.

The organ is also a bit of a mishmash and even McVicker said as much really playing happy birthday with a traditional Harrison Flue open chorus, then in a baroque style then, late Romantic Reger style with big reeds. Sure it is classically based but as a concert organ it has to cope with later repertoire as well so there will always be compromises.

[Barbirollians]

I thought James O'Donnell was very illuminating in the interval feature tonight .

[Mattbod]

Not heard the O Donnell concert yet but just heard the Olivier Latry interview: thought Rafferty came across as a bit of a plonker to be honest. Have to admire Olivier Latry's dedication though: 7 and a half hours practice (and probably the same tonight) going theough every single stop: that is how you become a cathedral organist at 19. I was there yesterday too, i doubt if they would have let me sit in on that but I think hearing Olivier Latry practice would be more illuminating than any recital. What Rafferty failed to understand is that one needs to find the right colours to make a piece work from the resources available. Indeed with John Scott the Bach and Marchand sounded lovely but the Liszt weird in terms of voicing. With Trotter the Mozart and Reubke sounded great but the unexplained addition of the tierce stop at the end of the Bach Adagio was a disaster (and probably a mistake). Wonder if Rafferty heard that. This is what Latry meant, finding the correct blend. However I am sure that a perfectionist like Latry would ask for adjustments.

[Wolsey]

...With Trotter the Mozart and Reubke sounded great but the unexplained addition of the tierce stop at the end of the Bach Adagio was a disaster (and probably a mistake). Wonder if Rafferty heard that.

I attended Thomas Trotter's recital and can confirm that the "unexplained addition" was not that, but a move to the swell division for the diminished chord following the coloratura descent, with a combination which appeared to include the 16' Quintadena. The twelfth was prominent; there was no Tierce. The sound was superior and more convincing when heard live, and didn't sound in the hall like a "mistake".

[Sir Velo]

The twelfth was prominent; there was no Tierce. The sound was superior and more convincing when heard live, and didn't sound in the hall like a "mistake".

I agree. I listened and replayed the "offending" passage, and it sounded fine on my equipment.

Mattbod, you make some excellent points. I do hope you will find time to email the "InTune" team and BBC Radio 3 about the appalling Gafferty. The sycophantic slobberings of messrs Handley and Mohr-Pietsch have also been as much as I can take! Having said that, we've enjoyed the concerts and the illuminating interval features when not glossed by the resident BBC toadie.

[ahinton]

The sycophantic slobberings of messrs Handley and Mohr-Pietsch.

"Messrs"?(!) In once sense, perhaps, but...

[Mattbod]

@wolsey and SirVelo: each to his own i guess but I thought the effect very weird and flat tbh.

I thought it might have been a tierce stop and ancarp and one of my organist friends the same: email below

Hi M

I actually heard the Adagio and couldn't understand what he did. As I said before, I am pretty certain that he added a Tierce, making the whole piece sound (for want of a better word).............WEIRD AND GHOSTLY.

B.

As for the BBC and Rafferty, no point in emailing as they do nothing. Olivier Latry gently and kindly put him in his place and made him seem look like a fool.

[mercia]

organ bits and pieces available for an extended period ............ if you're interested

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01vl79c

[Mattbod]

Thanks would dearly love to be able to download and keep Olivier Latry's improvisation!