Suffolkcoastal's Symphonic Journey

**Suffolkcoastal** · 10-01-12, 09:34

Continuing the symphonic marathon through my collection yesterday:

1803
Danzi: Symphony in D minor, Symphony in C major
Krommer: Symphony in D op40
Pleyel: Symphony in C major op66
A Rolla: Symphony in D

The Danzi C major symphony is quite a good one, the slow movement is largely scored for the wind instruments with only occasional string support and there is one quite striking passage which sound momentarily like Tchaikovsky. I find the Pleyel very opulent and very Haydnesque, especially in the scoring. Listening again to the Krommer reinforces my opinion that he was an exceptionally fine composer & certainly a composer who should be given greater attention than he currently is.

**Suffolkcoastal** · 10-01-12, 23:39

Today, the symphonic marathon continued:
1804
Beethoven: No 3
Josef Elsner: Symphony in C
Pleyel: Symphony in G major op68
1805
A Reicha: Symphony in E flat major
Tomasek: Symphony No 3
1806
Beethoven: No 4
E T A Hoffmann: Symphony in E flat major
Wilms: Symphony (No 4) in C minor

Listening to the Eroica Symphony in context with contemporary works really highlights what a masterpiece this work is, the large scale structural/tonal planning of the 1st movement really is awe inspiring.

The Elsner is slightly quirky work with touches of Balklans colour like that which occurs in some Haydn symphonies. The Reicha again shows he is a far from negligeable composer and the Wilms has a rather eloquent and powerful slow movement that makes a strong impression.

**Suffolkcoastal** · 11-01-12, 22:33

The symphonic marathon continues (it will probably take me well over a year).

1807
Weber No 1 and No 2
1808
Beethoven No 5 and No 6
C A Fodor Symphony No 2 in G major
Mehul: Symphony No 1 in G minor
Witt: Symphony No 6 in A minor (Turkish)
1809 (began)
Gossec: Symphonie en 17 Parties
Mehul: Symphony No 2 in D major

I've always been rather fond of Weber's 1st Symphony, rather theatrical in a way and already shows signs of individuality. The 2nd is rather unsatisfactory and very Mozartian. The Beethoven 6th is one of my least favourite Beethoven works, it gets better as it goes along, but the 1st movement in particular I've long found rather tedious and devoid of interest, love the 5th though. Fodor seems to cause R3 problems on TTN the 2nd Symphony is occasionally called 3 or 4 and the C Minor symphony 2, 3 or 4! The 2nd is very Haydnesque, even in the scoring. The Witt is enjoyable but could have been written 20 or more years earlier with its Turkish percussion effects. Gossec's symphony is a late work written when he was 75, mind you he lived into his mid 90's! The Mehul symphonies are a different matter, they are very good and probably among the best symphonies outside of Beethoven's written in the first 15 years on the 19th century. The 1st in particular is really worth getting to know.

**Suffolkcoastal** · 15-01-12, 22:42

Have been continuing my journey through the symphonies in my collection the last couple of days with:

1809 (continued)
Mehul No 3
Ries No 1
1810
Bomtempo No1
C A Fodor Symphony in C minor
Mehul No 4
1811
Fesca No 1
Spohr No 1
1812
Beethoven No 7 & No 8
Fesca No 2 in D major

A couple of interesting symphonies here, the Mehul 3 & 4 are like Nos 1 & 2, extrovert works among the best written in the first 20 years on the 19th century. Fesca is another of those composers who was dogged by ill-health and died relatively young (37). While some aspects of his symphonies belong to the late classical tradition others, notably in the 2nd Symphony clearly show signs of the transition into the early romantic symphony. This is especially true of Spohr's 1st symphony, where parallels with late Mozart rub shoulders with clear anticipations of Mendelssohn, especially in the finale.

**Suffolkcoastal** · 16-01-12, 22:21

The symphonic journey through my collection continued with:

1813
Clementi (No 1) in C major
Herold No 1
Ries No 5 (composed before No 2 but published much later)
Schubert No 1

1814
Ries No 2
Wilms No 5

1815 (begun)
Cherubini Symphony in D major
Clementi (No 2) in D major
Herold No 2
Ries No 3

Fascinating to hear the variety in these symphonies, ranging from the very Mozartian Herold and Wilms, the influence of his teacher Beethoven on Ries and clear anticipations of the romantic era in the masterful Symphony by Cherubini, how I wish he'd composed more than one symphony. Ries gets a little to close to Beethoven's Eroica in the first movement of his 2nd Symphony in C minor, the 3rd certainly has more individual touches with a very attractive 2nd subject in the 1st movement.
It is also striking that even in his 1st Symphony composed at the age of 15, Schubert has already partially created a sound world that is individual and recognisable as his.

Back to work tomorrow after my recuperation, listening will be curtailed somewhat, though as my condition for the moment prevents me from going back to the gym will have a few extra hours of a weekday evening to listen.

**Suffolkcoastal** · 18-01-12, 08:13

Yesterday's symphonic journey became something of a mini Schubertfest:

1815 (concluding)
Schuberts No 2 & No 3
1816
Fesca No 3 in D
Schubert No 4 & No 5

Fesca's 3rd is the best of his 3 symphonies IMO, tragically chronic ill-health followed by a relatively early death prevented him from composing any more.
Schubert's 4th has gradually grown on me over the years, I love the energy of the finale. The 5th has long been one of my favourite symphonies, with its unexepected and wistful harmonic shifts in the slow movement and its delightful 1st movement.

**Suffolkcoastal** · 18-01-12, 22:31

Continuing the journey through my symphonic collection:

1817
Danzi: Symphony in B flat
1818 (begun)
Danzi: Symphony in D major (P223)
Krommer: Symphony in C minor op102
Ries: Symphony No 4 in F major
Schubert: Symphony No 6 in C major

The Krommer is very impressive and clearly shows the influence of Beethoven whilst maintaining a certain individuality. The Ries is also strongly influenced by Beethoven, perhaps in one or two places too much so, but there is much to admire here and enough individuality is present to mark it as one of the better symphonies of the period. Schubert's 6th is another symphony that grows on you slowly, I enjoy the very Beethovenian scherzo, only the finale presents a few problems for me as I feel it goes on a touch too long.

**Suffolkcoastal** · 20-01-12, 22:57

The journey through my symphonic collection has been most enjoyable this evening.

1821
Schubert: Symphony in D major D708 fragments
Schubert: Symphony No 7 in E (realised Newbould)
Vorisek: Symphony in D
1822 (begun)
Clementi: Symphony No 4 in D
Ries: Symphony No 6 in D major
Ries: Symphony No 8 in E flat

The Vorisek is among the best symphonies written during the 1st quarter of the 19th century IMO, inventive and memorable, it does seem to be being appreciated more in recent years, how I wish he'd lived longer and produced more!
The Clementi is an assured work too. I have to admit to becoming more impressed with Ferdinand Ries's music the more I hear it, yes he occasionally almost plagiarises Beethoven in a few places, but there is certainly a fair amount of originality in his music and there is a sense of humour in too. The 8th symphony was actually composed well before the 7th but not published in Ries's lifetime hence its later numbering.

**Suffolkcoastal** · 23-01-12, 22:43

My symphonic journey has continued the last couple of nights with:

1822 (concluding)
Schubert: No 8
1823
Bomtempo: No 2
1824
Beethoven: No 9
Clementi: No 3 in G
Mendelssohn: No 1 in C minor
1825
Arriaga: Symphony in D major

I listened to the Schubert with Newbould's completion of the Scherzo (basically harmonising and orchestrating the 1st part of the trio and composing the 2nd half, the Scherzo sections are complete and the opening orchestrated, the rest just needed orchestrating) and B minor entracte from Rosamunde as finale. There is of course plenty on controversy whether or not this is the finale. It does sort of feel right but at the same time is a little too short, I wonder if Schubert cut and slightly reworked the original movement for use in Rosamunde so what we have isn't the original full movement, just a thought. The first two movements are of course superb. Anyway the controversy will probably continue for many more years.
The Bomtempo is a surprisingly large work with a 'big' first movement and does show Beethoven's influence. The Clementi 'Great National' isn't great music but it's still enjoyable. I'm struck again just how early Mendelssohn's characteristic sound world developed, parts of the 1st Symphony couldn't be by anyone else and their are also similarities to Schubert, though Mendelssohn at that time couldn't have heard a note of his orchestral music, and also to Weber, whose music he already knew. The Arriaga symphony is a lovely work, still indebted to the 18th century but of course his tragic early death a year later robbed music of a potentially great composer.

**Suffolkcoastal** · 26-01-12, 23:09

My symphonic collection journey last night and tonight:

1828
Lchner: No 1
Moscheles: Symphony in C major
Potter: Symphony in E flat (no 5/8)
Schubert: No 10 (incomplete, realised Newbould)
Spohr: No 3 in C minor
1829
Kalliwoda: No 2 in E flat (revised version)
1830 (begun)
Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique
Kalliwoda: No 3 in D minor
Mendelssohn: No 5 in D minor

Franz Lachner still only has 3 of his symphonies recorded which is sad, the 1st is a pleasant slightly Schubertian work of no great distinction. Moscheles' only symphony is a rather disappointing work, the first two movements are rather weak, however the energetic scherzo with its lilting trio and lively finale are much better. The Potter though not the equal of his earlier C minor symphony is far superior to the Lachner and Moscheles, again I was struck but its soundworld which certainly has individuality and with the composers eloquent writing for woodwind. The Newbould realisation of Schubert's strange 10th I've commented on another thread earlier today. I confess to liking Spohr's 3rd symphony, his style is a strong clear link between classical and romantic and I really should get some scores of his symphonies for study.
Kalliwoda's 2nd Symphony isn't the equal of his 1st but still stands up well. Hearing the Berlioz in its historical context with contemporary symphonies shows just how revolutionary and daring a work this is, particularly in its scoring, Beethoven's influence is often commented upon, but I also find anticipations of Berlioz in composers such as Mehul. Kalliwoda's 3rd symphony is a cracking work, clear anticipations of Schumann are present, the first movement is dominated by a 5 note cell, the chamber like scoring of the slow movement is novel and the Menuetto is not in anyway backwards looking, in fact it occasionally reminded me of Tchaikovsky and the trio is at a swifter tempo. I just wished the finale was a little longer. I do urge fellow MB's to investigate Kalliwoda's music. Finally listening to Mendelssohn's 5th symphony which has encountered criticism on another thread, personally I don't find it that bad a work at all though I can understand the composer's disatisfaction with it.

**Suffolkcoastal** · 30-01-12, 22:52

Back to continuing the journey through my symphonic collection the last last night and tonight with:

1830 (conclusion)
Wilms: No 7
1831
Lindblad: No 1 in C major
Onslow: No 1 in A major
1832 (beginning)
Onslow: No 2 in D minor
Potter: Symphony in G minor (No 4)
Schumann: Symphony in G minor 'Zwikau' (inc)
Spohr: No 4 in F 'Die Weihe der Tone'

The Wilms is more conscious of Beethoven than his earlier symphonies though still indebted to the 18th century stylistically. The Lindblad is also clearly influenced by Beethoven with several near quotations in places mixed with some anticipations of the mature Schumann this is still an attractive work though the finale goes on a little too long and stretches rather thin material. The first movement of Onslow's 1st symphony is most impressive, again the composer is aware of Beethoven particularly in the use of smaller motifs and the 2nd subject is quite charming. The other movements don't quite live up to the first, but this is be no means an insignificant work. Onslow's 2nd symphony I find more consistently interesting than the 1st, the 1st movement is again very fine with a sort of mixture of Beethoven and the world of composers such as Spohr. The finale has plenty of drive and the work has good balance, only the slightly uninteresting material in the slow movement lets the symphony down somewhat. The Potter G minor symphony is most engaging, Potter definitely has a distinct style of his own with dramatic strength combined with a slightly quirky individuality and excellent orchestration. The finale is a real winner with a very catchy 2nd subject that has a curious Englishness about it. I wish Schumann had finished this early symphonic effort, perhaps had he done so he would have had the confidence to compose more readily in the orchestral medium much earlier than he ultimately did. The Spohr is a rather eccentric programmatic symphony full of interesting orchestration and some unusual harmonies to say the least. Perhaps no masterpiece but in a way a most entertaining work!

**Suffolkcoastal** · 02-02-12, 22:56

Continuing the journey through my symphonic collection last night & tonight.

1832 (conclusion)
Wagner:Symphony in C major
1833
Burgmuller: Symphony No 1 in C minor
Frohlich: Symphony in E flat major
Mendelssohn: No 4 in A
1834
Berlioz: Symphony 'Harold in Italy'
Glinka: Symphony on Two Russian Themes
Onslow: Symphony No 3 in F minor
Potter: Symphony in D major
Potter: Symphony in C minor (no 8/14)
Wagner: Symphony in E major (inc)

Wagner's C major isn't great but its still fun, obviously heavily indebted to Beethoven but at times reminding me strangely of Schubert and more obviously Mendelssohn. Its a pity he didn't complete the Emajor, the 1st movement is much better than his early effort and there are, here and there, anticipations of the mature master. If you don't know the Burgmuller I urge you to get acquainted with it, it is a work of astonishing maturity for a 23 year old certainly among the finest symphonies of the 1830s and 40's. His tragic early death 3 years later robbed music of a potential 'great' composer, The Danish composer Frohlich's only symphony is pleasant and entertaining and very much of its time. I've always had a soft spot for Mendelssohn's Italian Symphony, and enjoy every time I listen to it. I'm still unsure about Harold in Italy, Berlioz is a composer I can never make my mind up over and a composer I feel I should like more than I do, must keep trying! Onslow's 3rd symphony is like his first two symphonies, a strong work, expertly written, I love the energy of the scherzo and finale, and the slow movement is rather poignantly beautiful, I wish I could encourage more fellow MBs to try the Potter symphonies, here is a very fine early romantic symphonist who is also British, the later C minor symphony is perhaps a little less interesting than his earlier effort in that key, but the D major is very fine, the Scherzo strikingly anticipates the Scherzo of Bruckner's 9th in places!

I hope my little commentaries on the lesser known works will encourage fellow MBs to try some of these works. Sometimes I wonder if I plough a rather lonely furrow with my interest in lesser known symphonies in particular.

**Suffolkcoastal** · 06-02-12, 22:41

Back to the journey through my symphonic collection the last couple of nights.

1835
W Sterndale Bennett: Symphony in G minor
Dobrzynsky: Symphony No 2 in C minor
J P Hartmann: Symphony No 1 in G minor
Kalliwoda: Symphony No 4 in C major
Lachner: Symphony No 5 in C minor
Nicolai: Symphony in D major
Ries: Symphony No 7 in A minor
1836
N Burgmuller: Symphony No 2 in D major (inc)

Some very interesting works here. The Bennett symphonies have confused me somewhat as I appear to have two symphonies in G minor composed almost 30 years apart. The early one here owes much to his teacher Cipriani Potter with echoes of the soundworld of Mendelssohn (though not as much I feel as some commentators have implied). The Dobzynski symphony, known as the Characteristique is a pleasant work by one of Chopin's Polish contemporaries, nothing special here but still good to hear. The first of Danish composer J P Hartmann's two symphonies is a strong work, the outer movements show a real drive, the slow movement is let down I feel by weaker material. The Kalliwoda is very individual, fancy starting a C major symphony with a funeral march as a slow introduction. As always I find Kalliwoda most inventive with some very individual harmonic touches, just let down a little by a slow movement of lesser distinction. The Lachner known as the 'Prize Symphony' is a big work around an hour in length and seems to be his best known symphony, though the 6th appears to have been judged his best though it has never been recorded. Some interesting writing here, clearly a fully fledged romantic symphony let down here and there by rather mechanical less distinguished material but still worth an occasional revival I think. The Nicolai symphony is a surprisingly large scale 40 minute symphony. The energetic outer movements remind me of Weber in places and the slow movement has an operatic feel to it, well worth trying out. Ries's final symphony was written a number of years after his previous symphony. This is one of Ries's stronger symphonies, with a powerful Beethovenian first movement, although one is reminded of Beethoven throughout this symphony there is still plenty of individuality and clear anticipations of Schumann's mature symphonies.

Finally Burgmuller's 2nd Symphony, left unfinished by his tragic early death at 26. Three movements survive, the first two are complete and the Scherzo almost so (Schumann actually completed it several years later). Hearing this work again and bearing in mind what a fine symphony his 1st was, I can only imagine that Burgmuller would more than and likely developed into one of the very great composers had he lived even another 30 years. The 2nd is big in scale, the 3 surviving movements last a little over 30 minutes. The 1st superb has superb breadth the mark of a real symphonist with some most engaging harmonic twists and he follows it with a thoughtful slow movement and engaging scherzo. If you haven't heard his symphonies before, I strongly urge fellow MBs to seek them out!

**Suffolkcoastal** · 09-02-12, 22:58

The latest installment of the journey through my symphonic collection

1837
Spohr: Symphony No 5 in C minor
1838
Weyse: Symphony No 5 in E flat (revised version)
1839
Berlioz: Dramatic Symphonie: Romeo & Juliet
Spohr: Symphony No 6 'Historical'
1840
Czerny: No 1 in C minor
Kalliwoda: No 5 in B minor
Mendelssohn: Symphony No 2 'Lobegesang'
1841 (beginning)
Farrenc: Symphony No 1 in C minor
Kalliwoda: Symphony No 5 in G minor

A rather mixed-bag here. Spohr's 5th symphony I feel to be an even finer work than his 3rd (normally judged to be his best), it has real emotional depth, especially in the rather beautiful and moving slow movement. He had recently lost his 1st wife, though he seems to have married again quickly he remained devoted to his 1st wife's memory it seems. The Weyse was originally composed in 1796 and underwent a fair amount of revision in 1838 ready for a new performance the following year. By the sounds of things the revision was quite extensive as there are aspects of the work that seem to belong in the 1830's rather than the 1790's. It is an enjoyable piece with an engaging finale. The well-known Berlioz needs little comment from me. Berlioz is a bit hit and miss with me personally but I like the orchestral movements from this highly individual hybrid-symphony, the vocal sections I find less pleasing. But hearing it all in context shows just how different and enterprising he was. The Spohr 6th known as the 'Historical' as it mimics styles from the 1740's though to the 'present day' is good fun, the energetic Beethovenian scherzo especially. Czerny's 1st 'Grande' Symphony is quite an strong piece that seems to get the odd revival now and again and seems to hold up well despite perhaps bit a little anonymous in style. Kalliwoda's 5th is another example of his individuality, again a really good symphony, one of the few 19th century B minor symphonies a;part frpom a pair of well-known ones. The symphony seems to have some martial overtones in places and in the 1st movement there are some clear anticipations of Bruckner, especially in the pulsing rhythm and here and there two moments that could be described as Brahmsian. Mendelssohn's 2nd Symphony seems to receive a lot of negative comments, really of course more as Mendelssohn described it a Symphony-Cantata, whatever emotions it arises in other listeners, I find it at times a moving work and one cannot deny the expertise of the writing thoughout. Louise Farrenc is IMO the finest woman composer of the 19th century. Her 1st symphony seems very much of its time with some Beethovenian touches in places. Perhaps somegtimes a little conventional I find much to admire every time I hear this work. Finally Kalliwoda's 7th (written before his 6th but published much later) is a tempestuous work at times (5 of Kalliwoda's 7 symphonies are in minor keys), the coda of the 1st movement has real ferocity, the slow movement and scherzo are somewhat austere almost angry in places and the finale brings the work to a strong conclusion. The 5th & 7th symphonies of Kalliwoda are on a cpo disc and well worth investigating!

Suffolkcoastal's Symphonic Journey

Suffolkcoastal's Symphonic Journey

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