Messiah - what did Handel actually write?

[Dave2002]

Recent listening took me to look at scores of Messiah - which turned out not to be quite as I thought.

There are several versions in IMSLP - https://imslp.org/wiki/Messiah,_HWV_...orge_Frideric)

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_(Handel) the original manuscript is in the British Library - and is scored for two trumpets, timpani, two oboes, two violins, viola, and basso continuo. The instrumentation at some performances in Handel's lifetime is known from descriptions - for example of the Dublin performance in 1742. It is known that Handel had his own organ shipped to Ireland for the performances, and possibly a harpsichord was also used.

I don't know if the British Library manuscript is available online as a digital facsimile - it probably is - but how does one access it?

In any case it seems that Handel's instrumentation may have changed due to performance practices over his lifetime, though how far these would have been "approved" by the composer is uncertain. Later many attempts were made to redefine the instrumentation, including Mozart's version, with later versions - particularly in England during the Victorian era becoming very large and unwieldy - perhaps fun (one of Beecham's recorded versions), but not necessarily what Handel expected.

IMSLP does have a version - supposedly a facsimile version - by Friedrich Chrysander, which raises yet another question - technical - not musical. How could facsimile versions of original manuscripts have been produced in 1892? Photography was in its infancy then. Nowadays it is relatively easy to produce reasonably good digital approximations of hand written texts using simple web cams - with high resolution versions if needed also being possible. Of course even if Chrysander was able to technically produce good facsimile copies, there are then issues of "which manuscripts did he actually reproduce?" - were they copies of copies, or "original" versions written by Handel?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Recent listening took me to look at scores of Messiah - which turned out not to be quite as I thought.

There are several versions in IMSLP - https://imslp.org/wiki/Messiah,_HWV_...orge_Frideric)

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_(Handel) the original manuscript is in the British Library - and is scored for two trumpets, timpani, two oboes, two violins, viola, and basso continuo. The instrumentation at some performances in Handel's lifetime is known from descriptions - for example of the Dublin performance in 1742. It is known that Handel had his own organ shipped to Ireland for the performances, and possibly a harpsichord was also used.

I don't know if the British Library manuscript is available online as a digital facsimile - it probably is - but how does one access it?

In any case it seems that Handel's instrumentation may have changed due to performance practices over his lifetime, though how far these would have been "approved" by the composer is uncertain. Later many attempts were made to redefine the instrumentation, including Mozart's version, with later versions - particularly in England during the Victorian era becoming very large and unwieldy - perhaps fun (one of Beecham's recorded versions), but not necessarily what Handel expected.

IMSLP does have a version - supposedly a facsimile version - by Friedrich Chrysander, which raises yet another question - technical - not musical. How could facsimile versions of original manuscripts have been produced in 1892? Photography was in its infancy then. Nowadays it is relatively easy to produce reasonably good digital approximations of hand written texts using simple web cams - with high resolution versions if needed also being possible. Of course even if Chrysander was able to technically produce good facsimile copies, there are then issues of "which manuscripts did he actually reproduce?" - were they copies of copies, or "original" versions written by Handel?

Surely the facsimile is a more modern image of the manuscript.

Handel wrote multiple variations of several Messiah movements, all of which are included in the first CD version of the oratorio I purchased. https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...handel-messiah

[Bryn]

Surely the facsimile is a more modern image of the manuscript.

Handel wrote multiple variations of several Messiah movements, all of which are included in the first CD version of the oratorio I purchased. https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...handel-messiah

An interesting project but, unfortunately, the performance quality does not really serve it that well compared with other 'HIPP' recordings of the work's various editions, would you not agree?

[Dave2002]

An interesting project but, unfortunately, the performance quality does not really serve it that well compared with other 'HIPP' recordings of the work's various editions, would you not agree?

I used to have that one, but it may have disappeared over time due to moves etc. I may have had some spares, but perhaps they have also gone.

[smittims]

As I recall, Messiah was originally intended for a charity event in Dublin, so presumably costs had to be kept minimal. For the first London performance presumably more instruments were available. For later performances still, anecdotal or literary evidence says that Handel himself inculded horns, but no original parts survive; these could be written for specific performances without a new score being necessary. Handel is known to have used extra oboes and bassoons in his works when available; again, he would not necessarily have thought of writing a new score.

All this encouraged Mozart, Prout etc. to add these instruments to their scores, Mozart notoriously clarinets and new countermelodies for them.

Handel's autograph score was lost/mislaid for many years. When it was recovered a revivial began,a dn the first recording made after that was the Boult/Decca, using an edition prepared by Julian Herbage. Beecham's recordings are mostly Prout/Mozart except the last one in 1959, which used a full modern orchestra. It's credited to Eugene Goossens, but I believe Beecham did it largely himself, perhaps asking Goossens to do some of the writing out, and credited it to his old colleague as an act of generosity, Goossens being hard up at the time.

Everything I've read about Handel suggests that he would not have had much interest in reviving an 'original' Messiah , though of course there's no reason why others should not do so.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

An interesting project but, unfortunately, the performance quality does not really serve it that well compared with other 'HIPP' recordings of the work's various editions, would you not agree?

I do agree. I rarely listen to it.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Beecham's recordings are mostly Prout/Mozart except the last one in 1959, which used a full modern orchestra. It's credited to Eugene Goossens, but I believe Beecham did it largely himself, perhaps asking Goossens to do some of the writing out, and credited it to his old colleague as an act of generosity, Goossens being hard up at the time.

That was Lady Beecham’s story, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

[RichardB]

IMSLP does have a version - supposedly a facsimile version - by Friedrich Chrysander, which raises yet another question - technical - not musical. How could facsimile versions of original manuscripts have been produced in 1892? (...) Of course even if Chrysander was able to technically produce good facsimile copies, there are then issues of "which manuscripts did he actually reproduce?" - were they copies of copies, or "original" versions written by Handel?

You could easily answer this question by just taking a look at the document, couldn't you? IIRC, Chrysander's photographic facsimile is actually an anthology of a number of manuscript sources (in Handel's hand), but in the process of cleaning up the images Chrysander changed some notes and omitted others, so it's pretty useless for reference purposes.

[smittims]

I'm interested, Alpie! So is the current concensus that Goossens did the orchestration after all?

I don't suppose the 1959 version gets much of an airing.

[Dave2002]

I assumed - incorrectly it seems - that photographic reproduction had not progressed fast by the end of the nineteenth century. By the time of Chrysander's edition photography had advanced to be technically good enough to make copies, and it also seems that by the 1890s that means had been found to make printing of larger numbers of copies possible. Probably both the photographic methods and the printing methods were limited in duration, being superseded by other methods in the early 20th century. Also we don't know too much about the economics of such facsimile attempts.

The preface in Chrysander's edition does make interesting reading though - see https://imslp.org/wiki/Special:Image...x/622260/tofpg

There it is stated that the facsimile edition is actually made of copies of several different autograph editions held in England, and that the enterprise of making the edition had to be done in stages over several years. How many people were involved and other related issues are not discussed - and it may be a matter of speculation now how the operation was carried out.

[MickyD]

Slightly off-thread - I've just acquired the Andrew Parrott 'Messiah' from the 80s, the Foundling Hospital version. I normally enjoy what Parrott does, but the overture and much of the first part is so slow. I much prefer the older Hogwood version which sounds much more convincing to my ears.