All got recorders in our pockets - Field recordings?

[Dave2002]

Interesting comment about "we've all got recorders in our pockets" from RR this morning. This is barely true - I don't normally have one, and I'm not sure about others. I do have a couple of Zoom camcorders - the q2hd and the q3hd (nla - but available sometimes either new or vgc on ebay) - which give fairly good quality recordings.

Mostly I think that trying to do field recordings is difficult. I have tried with my cameras, and results are .... mmmm .... passable at best.

Ideally one wants to at least use a microphone or camera stand and place the recorder somewhere where the recorded sound has some chance of being acceptable. Hand held is really not the way to go - except for a quick momento of an aural experience - and there might also be issues re players allowing one to record them. Aso it can be quite embarrassing, even if the players allow it, and there is often a tendency to keep the recordings short, which seems reasonable at the time, but later on when one gets home it is almost invariably the case that the recordings are found to be too short. Even a couple of minutes standing with a recorder in a 'live' situation can seem like an eternity, yet one has to do more than that to capture anything significant.

If there are live gigs going on nearby, for example a jazz evening in a local pub, it might make sense to have words with the venue and also the artists to see if they'll allow recordings. Some might, some might not, and some might not even have thought about it. Some events may have professional or other recording people present, but some might not have any. An artist or group which makes regular recordings may not want competition from an amateur, but on the other hand .....

[MrGongGong]

It's very true
Lots of things like this

https://www.zoom-na.com/products/handy-recorder/zoom-iq7-professional-stereo-microphone-ios

make high quality recordings possible

Hand held recordings are more than acceptable if you know how to go about it
AND

Recording gigs isn't really "field recording" whether you ask permission or do it illegally and risk getting rightly kicked in the arse or worse

Have a look at these folks

http://www.phonography.org

and these

http://www.gruenrekorder.de

and on and on and on

[Dave2002]

The assertion (Record Review Saturday 8th April) was "we've all got recorders in our pockets". Firstly, there are people who don't wander round with iPhones or Androids - so the "all" part is false. Secondly - surely most of the phone or iPad type "solutions" are not really high quality - or have I missed something? I know that many are now suggesting that iPhones are a pretty good camera substitute (they're not really - but good for some quick photos), but recorders?

[MrGongGong]

The assertion (Record Review Saturday 8th April) was "we've all got recorders in our pockets". Firstly, there are people who don't wander round with iPhones or Androids - so the "all" part is false.

Pedants corner is available elsewhere.

Secondly - surely most of the phone or iPad type "solutions" are not really high quality - or have I missed something

Yes
They are merely storage devices, coupled with something like this

http://www.rode.com/microphones/ixy

it's just as good as one of the zoom machines (sometimes better)

[Richard Barrett]

Pedants corner is available elsewhere.

Yes really. Almost everyone in the developed world (and plenty of people elsewhere) carry around devices on which it is possible to make sound recordings although not of the sort of quality we're used to when listening to professionally-recorded music. Is that more like it? I expect the quality will improve too, and it depends on how you feel about quality in different areas - I feel no need to own a camera separate from my phone since the phone is perfectly good enough to do what I expect of a camera. I don't feel that way about its sound-recording capabilities, but then I wouldn't.

[Bryn]

Pedants corner is available elsewhere.



Yes
They are merely storage devices, coupled with something like this

http://www.rode.com/microphones/ixy

it's just as good as one of the zoom machines (sometimes better)

That i-XY almost makes the iPhone look worth considering, were my experience of Apple products not so negative. One of the attractions of Zoom 'handy recorders' of recent years is that they have overcome the 2GB file size limit of their earlier recorders by seamlessly starting a new file when that limit is reached, so 96/24 recordings are limited in duration only by the capacity of the SDHC card in use and the capacity of the battery (whether internal of external). Using a 10 Ah power pack and a 32GB card with, say, an H5, even Satie's Vexations could be captured without hiatus). The microphone capsules supplied with the H5 are pretty good, even having their own built in shock mounts, but I suspect the Rode device for the iPhone would be superior. I wonder, does the iXY/iPhone combination permit continuous recording, say, 24 hours? Also, surely most of the digital audio processing is done by the iPhone's internal chip set?

[Bryn]

That i-XY almost makes the iPhone look worth considering, were my experience of Apple products not so negative. One of the attractions of Zoom 'handy recorders' of recent years is that they have overcome the 2GB file size limit of their earlier recorders by seamlessly starting a new file when that limit is reached, so 96/24 recordings are limited in duration only by the capacity of the SDHC card in use and the capacity of the battery (whether internal of external). Using a 10 Ah power pack and a 32GB card with, say, an H5, even Satie's Vexations could be captured without hiatus). The microphone capsules supplied with the H5 are pretty good, even having their own built in shock mounts, but I suspect the Rode device for the iPhone would be superior. I wonder, does the iXY/iPhone combination permit continuous recording, say, 24 hours? Also, surely most of the digital audio processing is done by the iPhone's internal chip set?

Pleased as I am, in general, with the performance of the Zoom H5, I have just treated myself to what appears to be a somewhat superior device of a similar sort, the https://www.gak.co.uk/en/tascam-dr-1...FQ-3GwodIFUMfQ. It has several advantages over the Zoom recorder, namely that it has an SP/DIF digital input option, has a wider range of sampling frequencies (including multiples of the 44.1kHx CD rate), lower noise levels, etc. Like the Zoom H5 it opens a new file seamlessly when the 2GB file size limit is reached. It can handle SDHC cards up to 128GB capacity.

It is due for delivery on Wednesday (I's awaiting firm confirmation of that). Looks like it might render my Alesis Masterlink 9600 effectively redundant too.

[Serial_Apologist]

If there are live gigs going on nearby, for example a jazz evening in a local pub, it might make sense to have words with the venue and also the artists to see if they'll allow recordings. Some might, some might not, and some might not even have thought about it. Some events may have professional or other recording people present, but some might not have any. An artist or group which makes regular recordings may not want competition from an amateur, but on the other hand .....

An ex-girlfriend used to take a pocket cassette recorder to gigs and record them concealed in her handbag. Following one such gig, the musician in question, whom we knew, came over and asked for our opinions as to how well he had played. We said it had been one of the best performances we had heard him give. He agreed, adding that it had been a pity no one had been there to record it!

The late saxophone player Lol Coxhill used to say that he had no objection to bootleggers, as long as they came up afterwards, and he would ask them to hand over the tape; and he would then delete the bits of his performance he didn't like, before returning it - by post, presumably!

[Dave2002]

Yes really. Almost everyone in the developed world (and plenty of people elsewhere) carry around devices on which it is possible to make sound recordings although not of the sort of quality we're used to when listening to professionally-recorded music. Is that more like it? I expect the quality will improve too, and it depends on how you feel about quality in different areas - I feel no need to own a camera separate from my phone since the phone is perfectly good enough to do what I expect of a camera. I don't feel that way about its sound-recording capabilities, but then I wouldn't.

I have wondered about getting a smartphone or even an iPhone purely for the camera, but my experiences to date with cameras embedded in phones has not been good. I have seen some quite good photos taken on iPhones, and there are galleries of such on the web. See - for example - sites like this one - https://iphonephotographyschool.com/blog/

However, for the kinds of photos I often take or want to take I really think phones are not going to get close to the quality levels I'm aiming at. I agree that it would be useful to have a small device which is always handy for taking unexpected shots, and perhaps if I'd already bought an iPhone I would use it that way. None of the phones I do have has a camera capable of even the quality of images I've seen from iPhones, but I don't intend to buy an expensive phone whan I can get a camera for either less, or a comparable amount for better quality, or pay substantially more for much higher imaging quality.

As mentioned I suspect that inbuilt audio recording cabailities of such devices will be similarly relatively poor, compared to equipment "designed for the job".

[Richard Barrett]

As mentioned I suspect that inbuilt audio recording cabailities of such devices will be similarly relatively poor, compared to equipment "designed for the job".

Undoubtedly. For the kind of photos I'm interested in taking, and for not having to remember to take a camera with me wherever I go, a phone will do fine. (I use a Sony Z1 which I've had for 4 years. Its picture quality is comparable with whatever iPhone was new back then, but I donate enough to the Apple corporation without adding to it unnecessarily!) I don't do that much sound recording but I have a Zoom H4 gathering dust somewhere which can be used for that.

[Bryn]

Yesterday I noticed that the local Maplins has Zoom H2n and H5 'handy recorders' with 30% discount. This makes the price of the H2n competitive with current Internet offers. However, the H5 remains overpriced at Maplins. Both recorders offer long battery life and seamless starting of new files when the 2GB file size limit is reached. I already have both models and find them very useful.

[Dave2002]

Looks like the H2n is a reasonable buy. Does it also have an input for external mics? I know it doesn't necessarily need any - but it would be interesting if it does. In other words can it function as a recorder - for example for an output from an iPad, or some other source?

[Bryn]

Looks like the H2n is a reasonable buy. Does it also have an input for external mics? I know it doesn't necessarily need any - but it would be interesting if it does. In other words can it function as a recorder - for example for an output from an iPad, or some other source?

There is a combined 3.5mm stereo socket for mic or line. "Condenser microphones requiring Plug-In Power (2.5 volts) can be connected to this jack." Check out the link I provided for more information about the H2n. I see the price of the H5 (a rather more sophisticated, though bulkier, device) has now dropped to the equivalent of most Internet offers. Still not the most competitive though. The integral mic capsules of the H2n are surprisingly good, to my ears. If you are interested in a simple video recorder, the Zoom Q2n looks tempting at the Maplin price too.

[Dave2002]

There is a combined 3.5mm stereo socket for mic or line. "Condenser microphones requiring Plug-In Power (2.5 volts) can be connected to this jack." Check out the link I provided for more information about the H2n. I see the price of the H5 (a rather more sophisticated, though bulkier, device) has now dropped to the equivalent of most Internet offers. Still not the most competitive though. The integral mic capsules of the H2n are surprisingly good, to my ears. If you are interested in a simple video recorder, the Zoom Q2n looks tempting at the Maplin price too.

I have several of the cheap Zoom video Handy Recorders. The sound quality is quite good, but the video quality is relatively poor compared to a decent camera these days. I'm not sure about the very latest Zoom video devices - but I can do 4k video now with one of my cameras, and the others that I have are better at HD than the Zooms. However, I can edit the video and synchronise the audio from the Zooms - which generally gives better audio than the cameras.

An interesting comment last night on the Film Review progamme about the film Unsane - done on an iPhone. Video OK-ish, but the audio clearly not done on an iPhone.

[DracoM]

The assertion (Record Review Saturday 8th April) was "we've all got recorders in our pockets". Firstly, there are people who don't wander round with iPhones or Androids - so the "all" part is false. Secondly - surely most of the phone or iPad type "solutions" are not really high quality - or have I missed something? I know that many are now suggesting that iPhones are a pretty good camera substitute (they're not really - but good for some quick photos), but recorders?

But, boy, does it tell us a lot about what the BBC thinks their audience is and wants and how it wants it.