RVW - "A London Symphony"

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't have a score of this work, and I see that there is an inexpensive edition published by Dover scores. Anyone know if this is the "standard" edition of the work as also published by Novello - or is it one of the earlier "tamperings"?

[Bryn]

The Dover score is a reprint of the 1920 Stainer and Bell edition. That publication is still in copyright in Europe, so amazon.co.uk are probably selling it unlawfully.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ah! So not the 1936 edition which is the one used in most performances and recordings, then. Darn.

[Pabmusic]

Ah! So not the 1936 edition which is the one used in most performances and recordings, then. Darn.

I'm not so sure. I have the Dover and I'll check. The reason I'm unsure is that I bought it thinking it was the 1920 second revision, 1st printing, only to find it wasn't. I tracked down a 1920 from Kalmus.

From what I remember (I'll check all this when I can) the publication history is:

Original score lost in 1914
Short score made by Butterworth & co (possibly for 2nd performance in Harrogate, August 1914
Reconstructed full score by Butterworth & co. in BL (the Hickox was done from this)
First revised version 1918
Second revised version 1920. This was the first publication. The dedication to GSKB was added at this point. Publisher Stainer & Bell in the Carnegie Series.
Third revision 1933 (performed 1934, published 1936 by Stainer & Bell). This was the first time "revised version" appeared on the score

Confusing isn't it?

The 1936 carried a note saying the 1920 should no longer be played. But the USA has this odd system whereby anything published before 1923 is public domain unless it's been actively renewed. That is what would have given Dover (which is American) the loophole. But I think they actually (unlawfully) published the 1933/1936 version. I'll let you know.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well - I collect the different versions of each of the Bruckner symphonies, so this is home from home for me! But I'd be very grateful to hear that the Dover is the more familiar of the various versions, thanks, Pabs.

I mentioned earlier a "Novello" publication - it looks as if there isn't one, and it was the old "stripey" Stainer & Bell score I was thinking of. I also have it in mind for some reason that there is/was a Boosey & Hawkes pocket score (I was sure I'd followed the work with it when I was at school) - but that doesn't seem to exist, either.

[Bryn]

The Dover certainly claims to be a reproduction of the 1920 Stainer and Bell (with additional prefatory note, etc.) There is a note re. page 109 but I cannot make out the detail via the "Look inside" facility available in the amazon.com listing.

[Pabmusic]

Well - I collect the different versions of each of the Bruckner symphonies, so this is home from home for me! But I'd be very grateful to hear that the Dover is the more familiar of the various versions, thanks, Pabs.

I mentioned earlier a "Novello" publication - it looks as if there isn't one, and it was the old "stripey" Stainer & Bell score I was thinking of. I also have it in mind for some reason that there is/was a Boosey & Hawkes pocket score (I was sure I'd followed the work with it when I was at school) - but that doesn't seem to exist, either.

I don't think RVW ever used Novello. The B & H score might have been the Pastoral, originally published by Curwen. From no. 4 onward he used OUP pretty well exclusively.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't think RVW ever used Novello. The B & H score might have been the Pastoral, originally published by Curwen. From no. 4 onward he used OUP pretty well exclusively.

<doh> - it was OUP I was "thinking" of when I wrote "Novello". Both times

And, yes - I've seen the B&H Pastoral quite recently, but the B&H London (a "pocket" score) must've been in a dream!

[Nimrod]

I don't have a score of this work, and I see that there is an inexpensive edition published by Dover scores. Anyone know if this is the "standard" edition of the work as also published by Novello - or is it one of the earlier "tamperings"?

I have a full score, hardback, issued in 1972 as a "Centenary Editon" with foreword by Kennedy wherein he states that in 1951 V-W revised the orchestration of the six symphonies he'd then written but told Barbirolli the London was left alone, it was "past mending". So we deduce from this that he was content with the revisions he made in the 30's.

It's published by Stanier & Bell

[Pabmusic]

Success! Thank you, Ferney & Bryn, for one of the more enjoyable pieces of research - I got to play the whole thing at 4 am (Previn). Very atmospheric.

Now the Dover score (Monet parliament on the cover) is the 1933/1936 revision, so it's a good bargain. I've followed it through completely. It has 193 pages, as does the 1972 Stainer & Bell score that I also have. My score of the 1920 version has 199 pages.

I suspect that confusion has been caused by the fact that S & B's copyright is 1920 - even for the 1936 edition. If that's the case then the American editions are legal in the US at least.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have a full score, hardback, issued in 1972 as a "Centenary Editon" with foreword by Kennedy wherein he states that in 1951 V-W revised the orchestration of the six symphonies he'd then written but told Barbirolli the London was left alone, it was "past mending". So we deduce from this that he was content with the revisions he made in the 30's.

It's published by Stanier & Bell

- many thanks, Nimod.

[Bryn]

The S & B can be found on amazon.co.uk.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Success! Thank you, Ferney & Bryn, for one of the more enjoyable pieces of research - I got to play the whole thing at 4 am (Previn). Very atmospheric.
Now the Dover score (Monet parliament on the cover) is the 1933/1936 revision, so it's a good bargain. I've followed it through completely. It has 193 pages, as does the 1972 Stainer & Bell score that I also have. My score of the 1920 version has 199 pages.
I suspect that confusion has been caused by the fact that S & B's copyright is 1920 - even for the 1936 edition. If that's the case then the American editions are legal in the US at least.

And many thanks to you, too, Pabs. Glad to hear that the detective work was accompanied by the wonderful Previn recording - highly regarded by Michael Kennedy (and myself - although I haven't heard it in far too long a time).

[Bryn]

Success! Thank you, Ferney & Bryn, for one of the more enjoyable pieces of research - I got to play the whole thing at 4 am (Previn). Very atmospheric.

Now the Dover score (Monet parliament on the cover) is the 1933/1936 revision, so it's a good bargain. I've followed it through completely. It has 193 pages, as does the 1972 Stainer & Bell score that I also have. My score of the 1920 version has 199 pages.

I suspect that confusion has been caused by the fact that S & B's copyright is 1920 - even for the 1936 edition. If that's the case then the American editions are legal in the US at least.

What a complicated affair this has turned out to be.

[Pabmusic]

What a complicated affair this has turned out to be.

All RVW's fault, who couldn't stop tinkering with his music.