Mahler 2: Rattled by Rattle

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I've long been rattled by the tempo of these two bars of descending triplet quavers at the end of 2(i). The score says 'Tempo 1' at bar 441, which fhg suggests should be 'identical' to the pulse of the opening 4/4 Allegro Maestoso marking.

Weeeell: it's not really my "suggestion" - Gustav got there long before me? The triplet figuration first appears in bar 7 and that closing chromatic version derives from a diatonic version in bars 12 & 13 - keeping to the initial Tempo (as Mahler instructs) brings out the family resemblance.

It may be that Rattle is more faithful to the score at this point than Abbado, but I find his performances strangely unsettling, and have no hestitation in placing this Abbado concert performance right at the top of the list of the many I have enjoyed listening to. The Swiss press gushed: 'It would be hard to find anything greater, more significant or more moving anywhere in musical life today: total harmony of mind, and heart, poetry and outcry, fear and consolation, knowing and feeling'.

Well, yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice, and Abbado's Lucerne recording is magnificent. But maybe, just maybe, the Music is intended to "unsettle" at this point - to create a mood that is exacerbated by a five-minute pause before the work continues; a mood that is only really "settled" at fig48 of the finale?

[VodkaDilc]

This surprises me. I'm no great Mahler person, but I have the Rattle in my collection and always thought it was strongly recommended. I also have recordings conducted by Klemperer and Stokowski (both bought for the soloists, I think, primarily Ferrier and Baker.) I must listen afresh.

[Thropplenoggin]

Delighted to have set off such frenzied fossicking into Mahler collections and scores. 2012 is the year I've discovered Mahler and so any input such as that received to date is immensely helpful in understanding these great works.

I've read Jonathan Carr's brief introduction to Mahler - I believe he, too, mentioned the conductor-composer's strange gait. One wonders if this was a product of his being raised within such close proximity of a parade ground. All that brass and marching band seems to have strongly influenced him. Mahler, not just out of step with his time but also with the marching band!

A further note: I oft frequent another forum on Amazon.co.uk, where there are many knowledgeable sorts and strong opinions, but also several t-r-o-l-l-s, which are the bane of the forum and kill debate. I'm delighted to find no such odious creatures here, only an atmosphere at once welcoming and very helpful. Bravo!

[Keraulophone]

Weeeell: it's not really my "suggestion" - Gustav got there long before me? The triplet figuration first appears in bar 7 and that closing chromatic version derives from a diatonic version in bars 12 & 13 - keeping to the initial Tempo (as Mahler instructs) brings out the family resemblance.

Well, yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice, and Abbado's Lucerne recording is magnificent. But maybe, just maybe, the Music is intended to "unsettle" at this point - to create a mood that is exacerbated by a five-minute pause before the work continues; a mood that is only really "settled" at fig48 of the finale?

I concur with your every word, fhg.

[cloughie]

I always find it interesting when discussions on interpretations take place. There are always those who say it should be played thisay or that way and that so and so's is faithful to the composers markings. BUT composers change their minds, styles change and conductors interpret the way they want it played. Surely the joy of listening is the differences and the indiosyncracies - I got to know Mahler 2 via Bruno Walter, then CSO/Abbado and then CBSO/Rattle put a fresh viewpoint on it for me. There's room for all these - who's wrong or right, is there a wrong or right - who cares as long as they keep on coming. Last year's Proms had the SBO and Dudamel - I enjoyed it greatly - but it got a lot of stick on these boards.

[LeMartinPecheur]

...the differences and the indiosyncracies...

Would that be Zubin Mehta then?

[cloughie]

Would that be Zubin Mehta then?

Yes his recording with the tIPO!

[LeMartinPecheur]

Yes his recording with the tIPO!

Don't kow it - smut seek it owt. Thanks for the trip!

[cloughie]

Don't kow it - smut seek it owt. Thanks for the trip!

loo her!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphonies-Nos-2-5/dp/B000026CPD/ref=sr_1_12?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1347400024&sr=1-12

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

More indiosyncracies:

http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=280;1;-1;-1;-1&sku=864390