Mahler 4 (i): is it 'about' anything ?

[Barbirollians]

I admit it and freely that I learned the work from the VPO/Maazel recording and I love it still .

[cloughie]

I admit it and freely that I learned the work from the VPO/Maazel recording and I love it still .

My education was from Szell on CBS Classics S61056 - affordable in the 60s! In the late 70s I got to like the VPO Abbado with Frederica von Stade. Now we're all spoiled by many versions being available at very affordably, often in full sets!

[Barbirollians]

The Szell is very fine as is the Horenstein and also old Frankly Worse than Most's effort is very good too.

[Alison]

Didn't you mate Sir John make anything of the Fourth, Barbers ???!!

Out of interest what was the picture on the old Horenstein LP- anyone ??

[cloughie]

Didn't you mate Sir John make anything of the Fourth, Barbers ???!!

Out of interest what was the picture on the old Horenstein LP- anyone ??

There is a live JB recording with Heather Harper and BBCSO which I have on an Italian label.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Out of interest what was the picture on the old Horenstein LP- anyone ??

If this was the old CfP LP, then I seem to remember it had a white cover with an oval photo of the composer bordered in red?

So many good and very good recordings of the work (and I include Maazel's - the best of his Mahler cycle IMO, and the last recording Maazel's done that I've found worth hearing* - and FW-M). I learnt the work from the CBS double album re-issue of Walter's mono NYPO recording (coupled with the Fifth), but Jayne is right: Mengelberg's is in a class of its own - no wonder the composer so admired this conductor. Foolish to try to emulate it, though: nobody else could make such a rit. when the violins enter not only "effective" but bsound exactly right!.

Best Wishes.

(* = sorry if anyone thinks this sounds rude, but then you should hear what he says about my conducting! )

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If this was the old CfP LP, then I seem to remember it had a white cover with an oval photo of the composer bordered in red?

Not bad; I forgot about the cigarette advert, though:

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=2203771

... anyone remember the Previn/Pittsburgh recording with Elly Ameling?

[cloughie]

Not bad; I forgot about the cigarette advert, though:

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=2203771

... anyone remember the Previn/Pittsburgh recording with Elly Ameling?

Yes, got that one - don't recall him doing any other Mahler.

[MrGongGong]

TO return to the original question

Is music ever "about" anything in the first place ?

[Pabmusic]

I'm not a great Mahler fan, largely because I usually can't avoid the feeling he tries so hard (please don't throw things!) to ram home the emotion. But I've always loved this movement (the Szell recording was my introduction). It seems so clear-cut, tuneful, witty, wonderfully orchestrated, and fun.

But I don't feel it's about anything, except abstract emotions such as light-heartedness with an acid edge.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

TO return to the original question

Is music ever "about" anything in the first place ?

I would best answer this with the wise words of calum in another context:

Jazz is an African American music with two defining features; improvisation and rhythmic excitement.
It began some 100 years ago in the cultural cauldron of New Orleans and the Caribbean with its heritage of colonialism, slavery, and trade.Although primarily an African American art, the miscgeny of culture and peoples is reflected in the music.

The first genius of Jazz, Louis Armstrong, led the art of improvisation on a path of virtuosic performance. Virtuosity became a key requirement for stature as a jazz artist; the jam session after hours became the testing and development ground for talent.

Virtuosic improvisation with rhythmic excitement and "swing" attained popularity and was carried by commercial platforms [dance halls, records, radio] to a wider audience. In the peak of this popularity in the 1930s and 1940s jazz artists developed an alternative to the commercial ethos with individual performers adopting a recital mode, with the concert hall and festival stage as their preferred arena.

Jazz, carried by commerce, and the spread of American culture generally, was accelerated as a global art form by the Second World War - the movement of people and cultural exchange entrenched jazz in Europe where it was already popular, and in Asia and Australasia. Since that war jazz has also developed further presence in South America.

The innovations and enhanced virtuosity of the music in the 1940s and 1950s took the music away from the commercial platform and created a global minority audience; and a growing number of non-American artists. The Lennox School and Third Stream movement established the first academic recognition of Jazz. It is now a substantial curriculum element in most major centres of music education.

It is an art form that speaks across the globe. It flourishes in major cities with high creativity in their populations, it has appeal for many people who live in open, tolerant, multi-ethnic cultures and cities.

Since its beginnings Jazz has demonstrated an amazing ability to enter and subvert conventional culture, it is never the art of the Establishment; always the dissident, the demi-monde, the bohemian. Yet it has become a truly global art form and has an amazing ability to replicate across boundaries and borders.

Jazz expresses the rejection of the slavery and colonialism of its historical roots and the racism of its country of origin. It expresses the liberation of the individual, the natural flow of individual experience, the mutuality of ensemble performance and the necessity for personal dedication and development.

It requires of its audience a similar dedication and openness to experience. It does not offer reassurance and comfort, but challenge and exhilaration.

It is one of the most significant art forms of the modern world.

Each of the various Musics are "about" human thought, feeling and communication. They're/it's about Life. About how someone experiences a sensation of being alive that others respond to because that's what they've also experienced, but haven't been able to communicate in the same way. It's about joy and rage and grief and ecstasy. It's about moving air molecules to change the way somebody else thinks. It's about us.

Best Wishes.

[Hornspieler]

I would best answer this with the wise words of calum in another context:



Each of the various Musics are "about" human thought, feeling and communication. They're/it's about Life. About how someone experiences a sensation of being alive that others respond to because that's what they've also experienced, but haven't been able to communicate in the same way. It's about joy and rage and grief and ecstasy. It's about moving air molecules to change the way somebody else thinks. It's about us.

Best Wishes.

FHG: An interesting post, but my answer to the original question would be even shorter:

It's "about" 60 minutes in length. A very fine symphony which for me requires no further speculation or attribution.
.

HS

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's "about" 60 minutes in length. A very fine symphony which for me requires no further speculation or attribution.

- d'you know, HS, I nearly replied to the OP with "It's about an hour, innit?" but thought better of it.

I sometimes wonder if I "worry" speculation to death, but not for long: I'm just made that way - why? how? what for? Just never grown up, I'm glad to say!

Best Wishes.

[Serial_Apologist]

- d'you know, HS, I nearly replied to the OP with "It's about an hour, innit?" but thought better of it.

I sometimes wonder if I "worry" speculation to death, but not for long: I'm just made that way - why? how? what for? Just never grown up, I'm glad to say!

Best Wishes.

Just Carry On Regardless, Ferney!

[Alison]

TO return to the original question

Is music ever "about" anything in the first place ?

In my wretched ignorance I have always thought La Mer is at least partly about the sea.