Mahler 6 Halle/Elder

[Alison]

#43. Top message, Alistair.

[Beef Oven!]

#43. Top message, Alistair.

Seconded

Especially "... [I] might concede that the Andante could be performed before the Scherzo per se, but to do so in the context of the entire symphony is what seems to me to weaken the work as a whole; in other words, it's what happens in the outer movements that determines which order of the middle ones is the most convincing..."

[Alison]

I fancy listening to the Elder this evening now.

[richardfinegold]

#43. Top message, Alistair.

Ditto

I personally feel that if GM had lived to be 100, hew would have flip flopped at least half a dozen times. If Mendelssohn had lived longer, he probably never would have been satisfied with the Italian Symphony, which he was endlessly revising.

It is an interesting question to ask of creative Artists. "When do you know you are finished?"

[ahinton]

Ditto

I personally feel that if GM had lived to be 100, hew would have flip flopped at least half a dozen times. If Mendelssohn had lived longer, he probably never would have been satisfied with the Italian Symphony, which he was endlessly revising.

It is an interesting question to ask of creative Artists. "When do you know you are finished?"

Whilst the answer to that would obviously vary from artist to artist, I suspect that many would answer either "I don't really know" or perhaps "it varies from work to work". Certainly Copland didn;t believe that he'd finished a work unless and until it had been performed and he'd at least given some thought to what might need revising, if anything; also, his friend Carter, as I mentioned earlier, revised some pieces long after he'd completed their original scores, so could be of like or similar mind (although, incidentally, he seemed not to care much about posterity and his legacy because he was too interested in his next piece/s - he once said that the most important history to him was that which may soon take place)...

All that said, Mahler's Sixth Symphony remains for me one of the greatest symphonies of the 20th century and undoubtedly one of his own finest achievements, along with his Ninth; yes, perhaps "the only Sixth, despite Myaskovsky, Matthews (oh and, yes, the Pastoral!)...

Anyway, thanks for kind words various!

[AjAjAjH]

Back to where this thread began. I was present at the performance and have been unable to comment because I went away the following day.

I can only reiterate that this was a spectacular performance.

It was the first time that I have heard the middle movements with the andante played before the scherzo and all three hammer blows. I couldn't have cared less because I was listening to a superb performance by an orchestra which on its day - and this was one of them - is 2nd to none in this country conducted by a conductor who on these boards so often does not get the credit he deserves.

I can't find on a thread anywhere comments on the equally wonderful performance of the Verdi Requiem the previous Saturday. All credit to Mark Elder for stopping the performance -2 minutes in - because of noise at the back of the auditorium. Noise which sounded to me and others in the Circle Alcove, like young children.

I also wonder when the Bridgewater Hall audience are going to give great performances like these a standing ovation.

[Daniel]

My own feeling is that when Andante follows the first movement, it immediately creates a distinct temperamental shift, allowing one to feel more clearly what has just happened in the previous movement, in a way that the Scherzo does not - 'the climber sees the mountain more clearly from the plain etc'.

I find it a magical symphony in either form though. It feels to me ever so slightly different to the other symphonies, in a maybe-Alma-sneaked-in-and-changed-a-few-orchestrations-before-sending-it-to-the-publishers sort of a way. This seemed a very fine performance.

Wonderful and enlightening arguments put forward by ferney, ahinton and others, many thanks, a fascinating read.

[bluestateprommer]

Recycling and hijacking this thread, as is bsp's usual practice, but again hopefully with justifiable cause, in that the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra is continuing their series of gratis streamed videos with the last 4 Mahler symphonies released over the next 4 days (https://www.gewandhausorchester.de/stream/). Even though I haven't seen them, I do know from advance reading one spoiler alert on Chailly's Mahler 6 from Leipzig: Andante - Scherzo for the inner movement order.

The other aspect of this newest set of Gewandhaus Orchestra videos is that 2 Thursdays back, the orchestra must have streamed Mahler 1-3 over 3 successive nights, but I totally missed it at the time. Oh well, lost opportunity.

[LMcD]

I'm so pleased that Sarah Walker - or her producer - saw fit to include the wonderful Andante from the 6th symphony, played just now on Radio 3 in the recording by the BRSO under Daniel Harding. IMVHO it's actually more interesting than the eternally recurring Adagietto from the 5th, and might even encourage a few people to listen to the whole thing! Given that 'bleeding chunks' seem to be more in favour than ever with broadcasters, I suppose we should be grateful to have the chance to hear something other than 'that piece from Death In Venice'.

[richardfinegold]

I learned the Sixth, and listened to my Karajan recording dozens of times, years before getting to know the Fifth. I never did understand the fascination with the Adagietto and the relative lack of appreciation for the Andante from 6 until I learned of the Death In Venice connection