Bruckner

[BBMmk2]

I mention Christus Factus Est in some posts. I get much pleasure from my DG CD of the Te Deum, motets & Psalm 150.

I have this as pasrt of a four cd box which DGissued. But yes, that is my Bruckner sound world!

[Beef Oven]

Didnt Bruckner have the idea of havin g the Te Deum for the 9th 4 movt?

Only as he feared he would not complete the finale. Now there are several completions, it's hard to argue the point.

[Roehre]

Only as he feared he would not complete the finale. Now there are several completions, it's hard to argue the point.

That remark of Bruckner's cannot be taken seriously (and wasn't meant to be taken as such either, but is connected to the dedication of the Symphony "To dear God"), as in Bruckner's harmonic world a work in d-minor cannot end in C-major. Transposing the Te Deum to D-major leaves us with unsingable passages, especially for the sopranos (solo as well as the choir).

[Roehre]

[/URL]

All these choir recordings (apart from the Masses 1 & 3) are spin-offs of the Symphony-recordings with Berlin and the BRSO [5: 1958; 1-4 and 6-9 + Motets, Te Deum and Mass 2: 1966 and 1967]. Jochum never had conducted these works, but with the necessity to spread some of the symphonies over at least 3 LP-sides (even the 4th !), a fourth side had to be filled: the motets and the Te Deum were especially recorded and used for this purpose.
These motet-recordings belong to the earliest recordings of these works anyway.

[Beef Oven]

That remark of Bruckner's cannot be taken seriously (and wasn't meant to be taken as such either, but is connected to the dedication of the Symphony "To dear God"), as in Bruckner's harmonic world a work in d-minor cannot end in C-major. Transposing the Te Deum to D-major leaves us with unsingable passages, especially for the sopranos (solo as well as the choir).

To be fair, I wasn't there, so I was really just giving a bit of context to BBM.

In my modest opinion, I believe that one can move beyond purely musical arguments and focus on the spirit of the music (and B has a lot of that). So maybe we needn't score an own goal by transposing the Te Deum to D major.

[Beef Oven]

All these choir recordings (apart from the Masses 1 & 3) are spin-offs of the Symphony-recordings with Berlin and the BRSO [5: 1958; 1-4 and 6-9 + Motets, Te Deum and Mass 2: 1966 and 1967]. Jochum never had conducted these works, but with the necessity to spread some of the symphonies over at least 3 LP-sides (even the 4th !), a fourth side had to be filled: the motets and the Te Deum were especially recorded and used for this purpose.
These motet-recordings belong to the earliest recordings of these works anyway.

Bloody marvelous though, aint they Rohre?

[Roehre]

Bloody marvelous though, aint they Roehre?

They most certainly are.
IMO It is a scandal that only approximately half of all Bruckner motets have been recorded so far.
All the ones Jochum did plus a handful of others (in total a 15 odd pieces have been recorded and appear on concerts regularly. The majority of the others (around 45 or so )) are good music too, and often quite easy to perform by amateurs on top of that.

The situation is even worse for his secular choral works: of the 40 works not more than approx 10 have made it to record to date I'm afraid.

[ahinton]

Composers and conductors, even today, are not averse to tampering with the established Bruckner versions whether these are first, original or God knows what.

I was struck by this modern revision of the Fifth's Finale under the direction of Peter Jan Marthe. He appears to have re-introduced the percussion favoured by Schalk but mercifully a bit more sparingly, and otherwise appears to have mainly stuck to Bruckner's original idea. Whatever one's views it creates a marvellous sound experience. I still can't see why the already glorious music needs this extra embellishment but, what the heck, if some prefer it that way so be it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_NHtjw0tE

Some Brucknerians just love tampering with Bruckner's music. They are simply following the composer's example in making alterations. If these are relatively minor I don't see much of a problem though I believe Marthe has composed a completely new version of the Third which is a quite different matter altogether!

Minor alterations I can just about endure, but no new 'versions' please ...

I've heard P J Marthe's take on the finale of Bruckner 9 - once. All that I wish to - or indeed can - say about it is that I wish that I'd heard it at least twice less.

[jayne lee wilson]

Composers and conductors, even today, are not averse to tampering with the established Bruckner versions whether these are first, original or God knows what.

I was struck by this modern revision of the Fifth's Finale under the direction of Peter Jan Marthe. He appears to have re-introduced the percussion favoured by Schalk but mercifully a bit more sparingly, and otherwise appears to have mainly stuck to Bruckner's original idea. Whatever one's views it creates a marvellous sound experience. I still can't see why the already glorious music needs this extra embellishment but, what the heck, if some prefer it that way so be it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_NHtjw0tE

Some Brucknerians just love tampering with Bruckner's music. They are simply following the composer's example in making alterations. If these are relatively minor I don't see much of a problem though I believe Marthe has composed a completely new version of the Third which is a quite different matter altogether!

Minor alterations I can just about endure, but no new 'versions' please ...

I wouldn't let the Schalks' ghosts anywhere near Bruckner's living music - even when alive they hadn't a clue. Best intentions, road to hell...

And when you consider that the inclusion or omission of the cymbal clash (with timpani and triangle) in the 7th's adagio is a question bordering on the metaphysical...

Looking up at a deep and clear night sky, you can feel very small...

[Colonel Danby]

I too noticed that faux pas by Saint Donald of Macleod regarding the finale of Bruckner's Fifth Symphony in COW as LSO rather than the LPO, but the lovely man can do no wrong in my book, and it must be attributed to an oversight by a subordinate (if they haven't all been sacked). I thought that FWM didn't do a bad job at the helm of the LPO, but he was hounded out by certain members of the orchestra who didn't like his style and fed bad notices to that grubby little organ Private Eye dubbing him "Frankly Worse than Most" (which, incidentally is my favourite read).

The live recording of the Bruckner Five from the Vienna Konzerthaus is only superseded by his account of Mahler Four with Flott.

[jayne lee wilson]

The FWM Bruckner 5th! My word yes, THERE'S a performance!

Still remember the first time I heard it, the Petrarchian fire-and-ice of the finale's coda thrilling through me - "I freeze in summer, and in winter burn!"

[amateur51]

The FWM Bruckner 5th! My word yes, THERE'S a performance!

Still remember the first time I heard it, the Petrarchian fire-and-ice of the finale's coda thrilling through me - "I freeze in summer, and in winter burn!"

This coming Friday, Radio 3 is broadcasting a performance of Bruckner symphony no 5 played by the Cleveland Orchestra conducted by FWM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qdzmq

[Alison]

And I have to say that listening to the New Year Concert CDs, FWM's conducting really isn't
so stiff and staid as seemed to be the case at the time.

[ostuni]

Yes, I remember reading lots of (at best) lukewarm things about FWM, but heard a clip from his Bruckner 5 on BaL a few years back, which made me get it immediately. Stunningly exciting.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

This may be of interest: http://www.mdt.co.uk/bruckner-sympho...ost-orfeo.html

Any recording of Bruckner 7 that comes in below the hour has to be worth a go.