Bruckner

[Pulcinella]

I don't see any opprobrium, only efforts to share an enthusiasm!

In the end either you get it or you don't, and if you aren't going to, no amount of enthusiasm is going to change that. On the other hand, some of the reasons given for objecting to Bruckner - no melodies, too much repetition etc. - seem not to get to the heart of the issue.

It was the forthcoming opprobrium I was anticipating!
I genuinely don't see (or hear) what both you and jlw (and others) find to admire, when you both listen to (and compose) music that to my ears is so much more inventive and rewarding. For me, Bruckner just goes nowhere!
But don't feel sorry for me; other composers and their music are available!

Thing is your opinion is no more or no less valid than anyone else’s on the forum (providing you’ve in fact listened to the works).
ps thanks also for endorsing my repetition point I’ve heard that from so many Brucknerphobes - though I don’t necessarily agree.

Apart from BBC MM releases, I do in fact have most of the symphonies in my collection, and do occasionally give them a spin: EMI Jochum/Dresden in 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 9, and BPO/Karajan in 8. Also the DG Jochum Te Deum; and I have sung some of the motets. The only time I have been to a concert in Symphony Hall, Boston, was in fact to hear Haitink conduct the BSO, and it happened to be a Bruckner symphony (7 or 8; I forget which, now!). How I wished that my visit coincided with something else on their agenda!


As is often said elsewhere: what a dull world if we all liked only the same things.

[jayne lee wilson]

Don't worry, rathamfarnhamgirl.
I know that I went down in the estimation of the other rfg, in Chicago, when I said that Bruckner did nothing for me, but I stand by that statement: I don't feel that my life would be diminished in any way if I never heard another note of Bruckner.
Those repeats: YES, I got the message first time, thank you.

Cue opprobrium.

There wouldn't be many classical symphonies without a great deal of structural and thematic repetition. It is an essential classical principle. Some of the greatest such creations - Mozart String Quintets, many Haydn Symphonies - have monothematic first and/or last movements....

Do any other works bother you in the same way? Say - Schumann's obsessively cyclic 4th or Schubert's 9th? Tchaikovsky's 5th? These and many other masterworks repeat far more literally, yet develop far less, than most Bruckner Symphonies... their impact and momentum utterly depends upon it.

(OK - gotta concentrate on the Big Match now.....)...

[Ein Heldenleben]

There wouldn't be many classical symphonies without a great deal of structural and thematic repetition. It is an essential classical principle. Some of the greatest such creations - Mozart String Quintets, many Haydn Symphonies - have monothematic first and/or last movements....

Do any other works bother you in the same way? Say - Schumann's obsessively cyclic 4th or Schubert's 9th? Tchaikovsky's 5th? These and many other masterworks repeat far more literally, yet develop far less, than most Bruckner Symphonies... their impact and momentum utterly depends upon it.

(OK - gotta concentrate on the Big Match now.....)...

That Liverpool goal was well jammy ....

[Richard Barrett]

OK - gotta concentrate on the Big Match now........

In the blue corner, all the way from the Austrian countryside, Anton Bruckner!!!!! Often said to let himself down by making the same moves in every bout, his sheer staying power on the other hand is the stuff of legend...

[Ein Heldenleben]

In the blue corner, all the way from the Austrian countryside, Anton Bruckner!!!!! Often said to let himself down by making the same moves in every bout, his sheer staying power on the other hand is the stuff of legend...

if Bruckner were a football player he would be Franz Beckenbauer

[Pulcinella]

There wouldn't be many classical symphonies without a great deal of structural and thematic repetition. It is an essential classical principle. Some of the greatest such creations - Mozart String Quintets, many Haydn Symphonies - have monothematic first and/or last movements....

Do any other works bother you in the same way? Say - Schumann's obsessively cyclic 4th or Schubert's 9th? Tchaikovsky's 5th? These and many other masterworks repeat far more literally, yet develop far less, than most Bruckner Symphonies... their impact and momentum utterly depends upon it.

(OK - gotta concentrate on the Big Match now.....)...

No, but they're not high on my listening agenda, either.


To other matters: Where DID that Spurs goal come from?
I'm surprised that the 'crowd' is not more spread out in the stadium, but there must be some reason why they're where they are!

[Ein Heldenleben]

No, but they're not high on my listening agenda, either.


To other matters: Where DID that Spurs goal come from?
I'm surprised that the 'crowd' is not more spread out in the stadium, but there must be some reason why they're where they are!

It certainly didn't come from having much possession ....

[Leinster Lass]

if Bruckner were a football player he would be Franz Beckenbauer

... and possibly, if he were a cricketer, Trevor Bailey, who, I'm told by people who understand these things, often occupied the crease for prolonged periods without scoring many runs?

[Ein Heldenleben]

... and possibly, if he were a cricketer, Trevor Bailey, who, I'm told by people who understand these things, often occupied the crease for prolonged periods without scoring many runs?

I think it’s more about Franz’s total intellectual command of the game coupled with huge innate talent Like Platini . The Trevor Bailey comparison is cruel .

[jayne lee wilson]

No, but they're not high on my listening agenda, either.


To other matters: Where DID that Spurs goal come from?
I'm surprised that the 'crowd' is not more spread out in the stadium, but there must be some reason why they're where they are!

Its called "The Kop".....when a last-minute winner goes in its one of football's equivalents of the coda to Bruckner's 8th...
Spurs goal was a counterattacking classic of their season, its what they do as well as I've ever seen it done.....

Sad & sorry if you can't get much out of two of the greatest, most innovative symphonies in music history....The Symphony was never the same after Schumann 4 and Schubert 9.... Bruckner has some of his wide, deep, ancient roots there...

[gurnemanz]

Its called "The Kop".....when a last-minute winner goes in its one of football's equivalents of the coda to Bruckner's 8th...
Spurs goal was a counterattacking classic of their season, its what they do as well as I've ever seen it done.....

Sad & sorry if you can't get much out of two of the greatest, most innovative symphonies in music history....The Symphony was never the same after Schumann 4 and Schubert 9.... Bruckner has some of his wide, deep, ancient roots there...

A long time ago when I was student and just getting to know classical music I was in a car driving through the Alps. We tuned to a station playing some rather Alp-like music. I suggested: that sounds like Bruckner. When the announcement came it was Schubert's 9th, which I had just heard for the first time. The Alpine setting was quite appropriate.

[jayne lee wilson]

As for those Editions......If you really want to find out for yourself, it's all here......

https://bruckner.webs.com/versions.html

or slightly simplified....

https://www.unicamp.br/~jmarques/mus/bruckner-e.htm

It is a personal choice of course..... live on in ignorance, or dwell upon the fascinating, very precise documentation which is the result of years of devoted Brucknerian scholarship and editorial care....

Take your time now....

[Pulcinella]

Its called "The Kop".....when a last-minute winner goes in its one of football's equivalents of the coda to Bruckner's 8th...
Spurs goal was a counterattacking classic of their season, its what they do as well as I've ever seen it done.....

Yes, I know; I was born in Liverpool, though being at a rugby-playing six-day-week secondary school rather precluded being able to get to their (or anyone else's) matches.

I guess logistically it made sense to keep the spectators there, but at first I wondered why they were not spread out over the whole stadium.

Sad & sorry if you can't get much out of two of the greatest, most innovative symphonies in music history....The Symphony was never the same after Schumann 4 and Schubert 9.... Bruckner has some of his wide, deep, ancient roots there...

I didn't say that! You asked if they bothered me in the same way as Bruckner, and I replied that they don't. I had Schubert 9 on only the other day!
And his fifth and eighth recently too, for that matter.
Please don't feel sad on my account.

[Leinster Lass]

As for those Editions......If you really want to find out for yourself, it's all here......

https://bruckner.webs.com/versions.html

or slightly simplified....

https://www.unicamp.br/~jmarques/mus/bruckner-e.htm

It is a personal choice of course..... live on in ignorance, or dwell upon the fascinating, very precise documentation which is the result of years of devoted Brucknerian scholarship and editorial care....

Take your time now....

When you put it like that, my path ahead is clear! What some folk might (quite wrongly, of course) see as a possibly somewhat patronising suggestion has in fact given me an idea for a new thread that might help me and others who, like me, have received official confirmation that their time here is limited and they therefore have to make choices - which can sometimes be horribly cruel - as to how to make the most, musically speaking, of their remaining years.

[Flay]

Yes: I've been reading the comments of those who have expressed their love of Bruckner's music, and they often seem to be listeners who had the advantage of becoming acquainted with it early on in their listening experience. This may well be the defining factor in my problem with Bruckner.

Don't give up. I only knowingly encountered Bruckner in my mid-50s, introduced initially to the 8th through the former R3 forum, and shortly afterwards in a performance of it at the Bridgewater Hall under Wand. Addicted since.

I had to journey from Yorkshire to Liverpool on Tuesday and the dreaded M62 passed effortlessly as I listened to that stunning, luxurious, detailed performance from Runnicles and the BBCSSO