Bruckner: favourite symphony cycle/boxed set

[jayne lee wilson]

I'm intrigued by your continuing advocacy of this set but it seems to be completely unavailable as a CD set otherwise I would have got it by now. Can you link to its availability anywhere or is download the only option?

I can't find the boxset on Amazon now, sadly.....(mind you, the price had reached well into 3 figures a few years back).... their streaming/download offer is of course a low bitrate which won't help 1953 sound at all.. so this is still the best I know........

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/bruckner-9-symphonien-wiener-symphoniker-volkmar-andreae/0017685122729

Sorry not to be more helpful Pet....

[Ein Heldenleben]

I understand from elsewhere that these are the 2000 remastering, as in the light green box of that year, which I have.

As for "dodgy" brass, you were never going to get Chicago-type precision in 1970s Dresden (I was going to say they took fewer prisoners, ahem...) but you could argue that there was a more idiomatic blend. I may have to do a comparison of AB symphonies played by those bands.

It’s not just the brash playing - I don’t think they are that well recorded - they over dominate the Tuttis ( even more than AB’s orchestration )

[kernelbogey]

Perhaps the better way to look at this now is to consider which versions were authorised by Bruckner. This is where Carragan's heroic scholarship comes in. So with No.2 for example, you have the original 1872 edition, expansively lovely, with the scherzo placed 2nd, and all the crucial references back in the first and last movements; but you also have 1877, much shorter, scherzo 3rd, and without the self-quotations. Both can be considered autograph scores. Similarly the 8th, in its 1887, 1890 or 1892 incarnations.

I now think Bruckner, who bequeathed his original scores to the Austrian National Library in Vienna, came to see at least some of his symphonies as co-existing happily in more than one version. The truly vexed question is of course the 3rd, but what you have there essentially is the remarkable, vast 1873 Original (with all the Wagner quotes) and the 1877/8 revision, later truncated further in 1889/90. But there isn't much substantial difference, certainly in the experience of listening, between 1877 and 1890.

Thank you, Jayne. That is a helpful set of ideas. This thread has given me some inspiration about how to spend the 'dead days' between Christmas and New Year!

(And perhaps it's high time for me to sign up to Quobuz...!)

[kernelbogey]

Jochum:

What is the difference please between the DG set - Berliners and Bavarians (which I have) - and his Dresden set?

[EnemyoftheStoat]

It’s not just the brash playing - I don’t think they are that well recorded - they over dominate the Tuttis ( even more than AB’s orchestration )

Thinking about it, when I compared the Jochum AB7 with that recorded by Blomstedt and the same band two or three years later, the latter was a lot more refined.

[Richard Barrett]

What is the difference please between the DG set - Berliners and Bavarians (which I have) - and his Dresden set?

I just listened to the first minutes of no.6 in both recordings. There isn't much difference in the interpretation from the conductor's point of view; the orchestral sound from the Dresden set is much more detailed and with a wider stereo image; I was listening to the latest remastering which, as has been said, is less murky than previously, although I would now describe it as somewhat harsh. My feeling is that if you have the older one you probably don't need the other.

[jayne lee wilson]

As Bryn (strongly) implied there is no explicit or stated remastering in the current Dresden/Jochum issue of the cycle. I have that light green one from 2000, and if you look closely at the current Amazon photo/listing for the latest one you'll see "(p) 2000 (c) 2020" as the date of compilation.

Sometimes a given reissue, even if not officially remastered, can have minor or significant sonic differences to previous ones, but I don't have the latest here to compare....

No.2, from 1980, playing now from the 2000 CD issue, if not exceptional has few sonic problems, apart from slightly clouded tutti, less acoustic than I'd like....... but this cycle was recorded across 1975-80 so there are inconsistencies.
The few Toshiba remasterings of these I've heard were more revealing of orchestral & acoustic character as you might except, but sometimes more "warts" than "all".... peak distortion/limiting in No.8 etc....

The 2nd here is Jochum in microcosm. The first two movements go quite well, often very beautiful, but the mad rush through the (12'46) finale?
What was he thinking of.....
(Andreae (also 1877) comes home in 13'51 - not much longer but his subtlety of motion, dynamic and phrase - the natural tempo variabile - make such a difference... (playing now off CD..... waspish and tender by turns, not a detail missed, I could listen to this all night....Bruckner comme il faut.))

The current Qobuz Warners offering of the Dresden sounds distinctly inferior in No.2 (clarity, presence etc) to the 2000 CD set, so it is confusing!

[Joseph K]

I'm intrigued by your continuing advocacy of this set but it seems to be completely unavailable as a CD set otherwise I would have got it by now. Can you link to its availability anywhere or is download the only option?

I listened to the first movement of Bruckner's first conducted by Andreae last night, on youtube.

https://youtu.be/QrEHFMaaNl8

[jayne lee wilson]

I listened to the first movement of Bruckner's first conducted by Andreae last night, on youtube.

https://youtu.be/QrEHFMaaNl8

Rest assured the CDs/streams are surface-noise free and much sweeter on the ears.....!
But the LP does get the rhythms - the schwung - and directness across. The feel for flow and idiom. Vital Bruckner in every sense.

Good review here....

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/Mar10/Bruckner_1227.htm

Got No.2 on again now.... see above..... so warm, so wonderful... there are few cycles where the strings and winds sing so beautifully and naturally, so idiomatically Viennese.... I beg you all to seek this out....

[Karafan]

They're not murky in the latest incarnation here where an impressive clean up job has been done: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruckner-9-...s%2C180&sr=8-1

Can anyone with the latest Warner incarnation of the Jochum Dresden cycle give me any remastering details please? I keep seeing people referred to the 'newly-remastered sound' or what an improvement the new box is over its predecessor incarnations, but nowhere on the packaging as seen online can I see any reference to the cycle having been remastered. Warner don't usually hide their light under a bushel and blare loudly about a set being 'remastered from the original tapes' etc...

[Anastasius]

Missed this thread.

Favourite symphony ? None. I'd rather have a migraine !

[Bryn]

Missed this thread.

Favourite symphony ? None. I'd rather have a migraine !

Please read the question before answering. It relates to complete sets of Bruckner Symphonies, not favourite individual symphonies.

[CallMePaul]

The recent Vienna Phil cycle on Decca could be interesting but reviewers seem to consider it a curate's egg. The Berlin Phil has since issued a similar cycle with different conductors for the symphonies (including the reconstructed finale of the ninth conducted by Sir Simon Rattle). Either could tempt me to supplement my Jochum/ Dresden box (green box!) but as I do not have the equipment to play Blue-Ray audo the Berlin set is too expensive. Does the Berlin Phil's label have to include these expensive items that only a minority of prospective purchasers may be interested in?

[HighlandDougie]

The recent Vienna Phil cycle on Decca could be interesting but reviewers seem to consider it a curate's egg. The Berlin Phil has since issued a similar cycle with different conductors for the symphonies (including the reconstructed finale of the ninth conducted by Sir Simon Rattle). Either could tempt me to supplement my Jochum/ Dresden box (green box!) but as I do not have the equipment to play Blue-Ray audo the Berlin set is too expensive. Does the Berlin Phil's label have to include these expensive items that only a minority of prospective purchasers may be interested in?

Not sure how you feel about downloads - there are people on this forum who don't seem to want to touch them with the proverbial barge-pole - but the BPO Bruckner cycle is available for a pittance as below:

https://uk.7digital.com/artist/berliner-philharmoniker-bernard-haitink-seiji-ozawa-herbert-blomstedt-zubin-mehta-mariss-jansons-christian-thielemann-paavo-jarvi-and-sir-simon-rattle/release/bruckner-symphonies-nos-1%E2%80%939-10586526?f=20%2C19%2C12%2C16%2C17%2C9%2C2

I downloaded it last year and have enjoyed dipping into it from time to time.

[Loathecliff]

Not sure how you feel about downloads - there are people on this forum who don't seem to want to touch them with the proverbial barge-pole - but the BPO Bruckner cycle is available for a pittance as below:

https://uk.7digital.com/artist/berliner-philharmoniker-bernard-haitink-seiji-ozawa-herbert-blomstedt-zubin-mehta-mariss-jansons-christian-thielemann-paavo-jarvi-and-sir-simon-rattle/release/bruckner-symphonies-nos-1%E2%80%939-10586526?f=20%2C19%2C12%2C16%2C17%2C9%2C2

I downloaded it last year and have enjoyed dipping into it from time to time.

Could my famed site navigation skills, but how can you tell who is playing what, and when?