Bruckner and His Editors

[Bryn]

... now available at an absurd bargain price

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01J4RIKR4

.

Though only in 2-channel stereo, and at CD resolution.

[P. G. Tipps]

In fact, that's really what I feel generally about Bruckner's revisions - less a search for "the definitive" version than a revelling in the fifteen or so rather wonderful Symphonies that result from them.

Precisely!

What the heck is a 'definitive' Bruckner symphony, anyway?

Anyone who is familiar with the later 'versions' of the 4th will get the shock of their lives when they first hear the true original. I know I did!

It is a quite different symphony from the revisions, and at least as worthy, and one can much better understand why the composer referred to 'hunting horns' etc and called it The Romantic.

The differences between the Haas and Nowak editions sound relatively insignificant to my admittedly amateur ear. I tend to marginally prefer the former as, in the 8th at least, it means even more Bruckner!

There should be a very honoured place for all the wonderful Bruckner versions whatever our personal preferences for one or the other, imv.

[richardfinegold]

Ferney
I'll have to see if Ican dig up the Swafford biography, which I read several years ago, but I am fairly certain that there was no depiction of a warm friendship between Brahms and Bruckner. There was a chapter devoted to a sort of summit lunch, where The two Composers and their acolytes met for lunch, ate and toasted each other in an attempt reach some sort of understanding. The Vienna newspapers reported this meeting on their front pages ( would that feuding Composers could generate such interest in modern times). Apparently after the meeting things quickly reverted to the status quo, with Hanslick. who was seen as Brahm's surrogate attack dog, doing his utmost to savage Bruckner, and other notables in Brahm's circle doing the same, desparaging Bruckner as unplayable, lacking structural coherence, etc.
Biographers tend to gild the lily,of course, and Swafford may of left out some details. I would be interested I further readings about the late 19th Century Vienna Cultural scene

[Bryn]

The differences between the Haas and Nowak editions sound relatively insignificant to my admittedly amateur ear. I tend to marginally prefer the former as, in the 8th at least, it means even more Bruckner!

Hmm. More like a collage of passages by Bruckner with added glue by Haas seeping out the joins.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

rfg - there are excellent chapters by Andrea Harrandt on cultural politics in Bruckner's Vienna in the Cambridge Companion and in the second chapter of the Horton study of the Symphonies.

I'm trying to find the biography which gives details of the late relationship ("cordial" rather than a "warm friendship", perhaps - but repeated meetings that they were both reported to have looked forward to).

[richardfinegold]

rfg - there are excellent chapters by Andrea Harrandt on cultural politics in Bruckner's Vienna in the Cambridge Companion and in the second chapter of the Horton study of the Symphonies.

I'm trying to find the biography which gives details of the late relationship ("cordial" rather than a "warm friendship", perhaps - but repeated meetings that they were both reported to have looked forward to).

Thanks, Ferney

[richardfinegold]

I streamed the Simone Young recording of #4 tonight, the 'original' version . It really does sound like a different work, particularly the last movement.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'm trying to find the biography which gives details of the late relationship ("cordial" rather than a "warm friendship", perhaps - but repeated meetings that they were both reported to have looked forward to).

Right - it looks as if my source was the Derek Watson biography of 1975 (in the Dent "The Master Musicians" series) which I note I last read in 1993! Page 45:

In Autumn 1889, a meeting [between Brahms ad Bruckner] was arranged by friends of the two composers in order to bring the two men closer together. This aim was never realized, but although the meeting at a Viennese restaurant started coldly and formally, the ice was broken when they discovered that they shared an enthusiasm for traditional Austrian dishes. Thet spent a convivial evening over smoked ham and dumplings, but never entered into any debate about Music.

But I am convinced (/was convinced/convinced myself) that I had read of further meetings, with Brahms visiting the frail Bruckner in his final illness - maybe it's in the biography by Hans-Hubert Schonzeler, which I thought I had, but which I can't find anywhere. Watson does mention (page 47) that

At a performance of the F minor Mass in Vienna in 1893, Brahms applauded so warmly that Bruckner went up to his Box to thank him for his gesture.

... and (pg 48) ...

On 12th January, 1896, [Bruckner] attended his last concert - a performance of the [I]Te Deum[/U] that had been suggested by none other than Johannes Brahms.

... and, of Bruckner's funeral ...

Brahms arrived late, stood at the door, muttered what was thought to be "Never mind; my own coffin soon!" and walked away.

[richardfinegold]

Very interesting stuff, Ferney. Brahms also had an appreciation for Wagner; at one point he reportedly said "I am the most fervent Wagnerian alive"--quite the opposite of our traditional understanding of Brahmsv. Wagner

[Once Was 4]

Hans-Hubert Schonzeler reconstructed the fourth movement of Bruckner's Ninth Symphony and recorded it with what was then the BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra at the Milton Hall in Manchester. I was booked to play 4th horn to replace the regular player who was away for some reason. I got there to be told "the player booked to play 8th horn/4th Wagner Tuba has gone off sick - you will have to do it!" and had an F 'catastraphone' shoved into my shaking hands. Fortunately the part was simple and the experience stood me in good stead for the future when I played this position many times (particularly in Wagner and in Bruckner 7 which is the only time that one plays the 'singing pig' without doubling on horn.) Why 'catastraphone'? This is my favourite of the nicknames for this hybrid instrument which some players will not touch. Disasters with it were once all-too-common but, these days, students are trained on them at college. In my day one's first experience of them was usually as above.
Back to the Bruckner: the recording was later tacked on to a recording of the usual three movements made by the same orchestra and conductor about a year earlier (I was also playing 4th horn for that and for the same reason). This was made in the Great Hall of Salford University - about as divorced from an ideal Bruckner acoustic as one could get. Also, the personel of the horn section (9 players including WTs and 'bumper') was very different. John Bimson led the section for mvts 1 - 3 and Jonathan Goodall for mvt 4 for example and there were several other changes. Does anybody remember this recording and does it show (especially the acoustic)?

[Pianorak]

Prestoclassical today: Bruckner: Complete Symphonies
Bruckner:
Symphonies 0-9 (complete)
Symphony No. 00 in F minor 'Study Symphony'
Philharmoniker Hamburg, Simone Young
The Bruckner cycle with Simone Young, acclaimed by the press and public in equal measure, is now available in a box including 12 CDs in audio quality in its entirety.

All 11 symphonies, if available in their respective original versions, are being offered at an attractive price – the SACDs of the single releases will also remain available as long as the supply lasts.

Scheduled for release on 30 September 2016. Order it now and we will deliver it as soon as it is available.

[vinteuil]

Prestoclassical today: Bruckner: Complete Symphonies.

... cheaper, though, at amazon -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01J4RIKR4

[Pianorak]

Ah - well spotted, vinteuil. Thanks.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

My Christmas Wish List has been rejected by Santa on Elf & Safety grounds!

[richardfinegold]

I own the sACD recordings of #7 &9. the Seventh is a very good performance, with a nice ebb and flo. The 9th is rather strait laced and misses some of the grandeur, particularly in III (there is no IV). Both are stunningly recorded. I streamed the 'CD Quality' version of 4, as in a post above. Besides the work itself sounding like a completely different Symphony, the 'CD Quality' was a lot less impressive to these ears than some other Bruckner that I've heard recently. Ymmd