Bruckner 8 Rattle and LSO - Barbican Thursday and Radio Three

[Beef Oven!]

I have just finished the first movement of the Tintner. Will continue to listen to the rest.

Edit: Once I've made a cup of coffee.

[waldo]

Yes, there are Schalk recordings around but surely these are now considered by most to be more of a curiosity rather than a serious rival to the more generally-accepted and now long-established versions?

No, probably not..........What I meant was that the scholarly wind has changed somewhat. Rather than outright condemnation of Shalk and complete rejection of "his" editions, efforts are now being made to develop a more nuanced or even sympathetic point of view. Detailed analysis of correspondence etc reveals that Bruckner was often "in the loop" when it came to Shalk's alterations; also that Bruckner had final say in many cases. This seems to vary from symphony to symphony, edition to edition, so it is hard to make an overall decision about the value of Shalk's editions. Rather than rejecting them outright, it may be that we can treat them as useful sources of information. As I said, some kind of revisionist effort is now going in to this area. Of course, this may all be complete crap and nothing but the attempt for this or that "scholar" to make a name for themselves..........

One area that really is changing, however, is the view that Bruckner was easily influenced. As said before, Cooke referred to the 1890 version of the 8th as the Bruckner-Shalk. There is, it seems, little evidence for this at all. So even if Shalk sometimes meddled with published editions, it does not seem to be the case that he was responsible for changes in the manuscripts themselves. These seem to have been made by Bruckner himself, so there is really no call to refer to this 1890 version as the Bruckner-Shalk version.

Anyway, enough from me. I am going back to my old position again now. I will listen to whatever I have in my collection and put my hands over my ears if anyone mentions the Bruckner problem.

[Beef Oven!]

And quite right to mention the myth of the "easily led" Bruckner

Hopefully the tray of hot doughnuts is but a myth, too.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I will listen to whatever I have in my collection and put my hands over my ears if anyone mentions the Bruckner problem.

Ah! I'm afraid that that's Haas speaking through you - nowadays it's preferable to talk of "The Bruckner Opportunities".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Hopefully the tray of hot doughnuts is but a myth, too.

???!!!

I don't know rhat this myth is - and, whilst I suspect I really might not want to know; I actually do!

[Beef Oven!]

???!!!

I don't know rhat this myth is - and, whilst I suspect I really might not want to know; I actually do!

Quite widely circulated story, seems true. Here's the first one that came up when I googled "Bruckner Symphony tray of hot doughnuts"

[ahinton]

Doh! Nuts!

[Beef Oven!]

Doh! Nuts!

Der Ring?

[ahinton]

Der Ring?

By some people's flat horizons, peut-être...

Or perhaps he could have meant "donut play it like that again!"...

[P. G. Tipps]

Hopefully the tray of hot doughnuts is but a myth, too.

Now that does sound like the real Bruckner. Well-meaning, generous and delightfully eccentric!

I find those little Bruckner tales somewhat heartwarming, whether actually true or not. They simply add to my vision of the composer as a kindly, decent and humbly appreciative man.

It's maybe the rest of us who are the real "odd" ones ...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Der Ring?

"The 48" will never have quite the same associations again!

[Beef Oven!]

I have just finished the first movement of the Tintner. Will continue to listen to the rest.

Edit: Once I've made a cup of coffee.

Is it ok to have a 4 hour pause between the first and second movements? I have completely distracted myself and I'm going out for lunch soon.

[ahinton]

Is it ok to have a 4 hour pause between the first and second movements? I have completely distracted myself and I'm going out for lunch soon.

Not at a live performance but if you have to impose one for other than musical reasons when listening to a recorded or broadcasts performance then, whilst far from ideal, that's up to you, I think. As long as you don't reverse the order of the middle movements...

[Beef Oven!]

Not at a live performance but if you have to impose one for other than musical reasons when listening to a recorded or broadcasts performance then, whilst far from ideal, that's up to you, I think. As long as you don't reverse the order of the middle movements...

[Bryn]

Is it ok to have a 4 hour pause between the first and second movements? I have completely distracted myself and I'm going out for lunch soon.

Sure, it will help to make up for all the times the 1 minute pause between movements of Messiaen's "Et expecto ressurectionum mortuorum" and the 2 minute pause between the first and second movements of Mahler's 2nd have not been observed.