Bruckner: Symphony no. 7 BaL 13/12/14

[french frank]

'Evening, RayC - welcome. Good to see you pitching in Without Fear ...

[DoctorT]

I agree about the format and often shouted at AM to shut up! Very disappointed not to hear anything about more recent recordings - in the first 40 minutes only one from this century was mentioned.

Runnicles / BBCSSO for example?

[Don Petter]

Who won?

JD, but only after a series of submissions.

[Beef Oven!]

I enjoyed this CDR very much indeed.

It was refreshing to hear the contrasts so clearly put - chamber version, Harnoncourt's cymbal-less, Celi/Norrington, Bohm's frenetic/Jochum's saintly, historic/modern etc.

And none of the usual cliches about 'granite-hewn' or 'cathedrals of sound'!

The two-headed format is definitely a good development. If people feel that they didn't work well together, that's one thing. But it doesn't mean the format itself, is wrong.

The decision for the choices to be eliminated or taken forward, were clearly reasoned and simply put. I wish it could have been a two-hour slot!

People fear change, but things must move on, can't stand still.

It was more populist than specialist. I imagine that the target audience would be those that have a certain amount of knowledge of B7, more than a complete newcomer, but not a specialist, highly technical or esoteric listener. Surely that's got to be the optimal target audience?

Anyway, it had me digging up my copy of the chamber version, downloading the Furtwangler '49 (I only had the '51) and queuing the Bohm, Karajan and Haitink!!!

I really fancy getting hold of the Harnoncourt, too!

[Barbirollians]

I only heard a bit of it in the car driving to Cheltenham . AmcG's interjections were pointless and rather like the Chopin Preludes one did nothing but reduce the time for musical examples. JD for example complimented the Klemperer but AMcG then announced we would not be hearing that as it did not make the shortlist - a list that would not have needed to be so short without his blitherings !

The Haitink certainly sounded better than his 1970s remake. The 1949 Furtwangler a good deal better than the Cairo one fond as I am of the latter - did HVK's thrilling EMI account also get the early push ?

[Don Petter]

I wish it could have been a two-hour slot!

I think if it had been a two hour slot, people would have been more tolerant of the format. It was the feeling that all the needless bonhomie was eating into the precious forty five minutes which riled me.

[Bryn]

I think if it had been a two hour slot, people would have been more tolerant of the format. It was the feeling that all the needless bonhomie was eating into the precious forty five minutes which riled me.

Actually it ran for just under 59 minutes.

[Don Petter]

Actually it ran for just under 59 minutes.

Had that been announced? If so, I missed it, and was assuming the normsl 45 as the programme progressed.

[Bryn]

Had that been announced? If so, I missed it, and was assuming the normsl 45 as the programme progressed.

I have not checked whether it was announced. I just noted how long it lasted; not at the time, but just now via the iPlayer.

[Don Petter]

I have not checked whether it was announced. I just noted how long it lasted; not at the time, but just now via the iPlayer.

Perhaps it was tacit acknowledgement that the format introduced more padding?

[vibratoforever]

I had not realised what a dire experience BAL had become. Did just one of AMcG's utterances add anything at all.

As for the reviewer, I include two examples (paraphrased) of the nonsense we were subjected to:

Gunter Wand (and others) did not know what to do after the second movement

You can tell from the opening what the rest of that performance was going to be like


The first 15 minutes proved to be a freakshow, devoted as it was to the contributions of Norrington and Celibidache, only to alight on Von Karajan. Despite the very generous time that was allocated to the review, light was shed on a tiny fraction of available recordings.

[vibratoforever]

I enjoyed this CDR very much indeed.

It was refreshing to hear the contrasts so clearly put - chamber version, Harnoncourt's cymbal-less, Celi/Norrington, Bohm's frenetic/Jochum's saintly, historic/modern etc.

And none of the usual cliches about 'granite-hewn' or 'cathedrals of sound'!

The two-headed format is definitely a good development. If people feel that they didn't work well together, that's one thing. But it doesn't mean the format itself, is wrong.

The decision for the choices to be eliminated or taken forward, were clearly reasoned and simply put. I wish it could have been a two-hour slot!

People fear change, but things must move on, can't stand still.

It was more populist than specialist. I imagine that the target audience would be those that have a certain amount of knowledge of B7, more than a complete newcomer, but not a specialist, highly technical or esoteric listener. Surely that's got to be the optimal target audience?

Anyway, it had me digging up my copy of the chamber version, downloading the Furtwangler '49 (I only had the '51) and queuing the Bohm, Karajan and Haitink!!!

I really fancy getting hold of the Harnoncourt, too!

Populist? Hardly

None of the usual cliches? There were plenty about religiosity. How does one recognise a performance being "pious"?

[verismissimo]

I enjoyed this CDR very much indeed.

It was refreshing to hear the contrasts so clearly put - chamber version, Harnoncourt's cymbal-less, Celi/Norrington, Bohm's frenetic/Jochum's saintly, historic/modern etc.

And none of the usual cliches about 'granite-hewn' or 'cathedrals of sound'!

The two-headed format is definitely a good development. If people feel that they didn't work well together, that's one thing. But it doesn't mean the format itself, is wrong.

The decision for the choices to be eliminated or taken forward, were clearly reasoned and simply put. I wish it could have been a two-hour slot!

People fear change, but things must move on, can't stand still.

It was more populist than specialist. I imagine that the target audience would be those that have a certain amount of knowledge of B7, more than a complete newcomer, but not a specialist, highly technical or esoteric listener. Surely that's got to be the optimal target audience?

Anyway, it had me digging up my copy of the chamber version, downloading the Furtwangler '49 (I only had the '51) and queuing the Bohm, Karajan and Haitink!!!

I really fancy getting hold of the Harnoncourt, too!

Me too, Beefie. It was full of interesting perspectives and didn't sound like the reading aloud of an essay, which many do.

Neophobia rules ok, apparently.

[P. G. Tipps]

I had not realised what a dire experience BAL had become. Did just one of AMcG's utterances add anything at all.

As for the reviewer, I include two examples (paraphrased) of the nonsense we were subjected to:

Gunter Wand (and others) did not know what to do after the second movement

You can tell from the opening what the rest of that performance was going to be like


The first 15 minutes proved to be a freakshow, devoted as it was to the contributions of Norrington and Celibidache, only to alight on Von Karajan. Despite the very generous time that was allocated to the review, light was shed on a tiny fraction of available recordings.

Yes, that just about sums it all up for me.

Not only Wand came in for such ridiculous dismissal but quite a few other leading Bruckner conductors as well.

The Norrington would certainly not be on my list as it's fast pace completely lacks the essential 'mystery' inherent in the music, imho. Furtwangler may have got away with it (in No 5 especially) by substituting energy and passion for sublime, if often rugged, majesty but the Norrington simply ends up being quite ordinary and unremarkable?

Abbado doesn't provide nearly enough 'ruggedness' for me and Celibidache is strictly for the Bruckner connoisseur, regular podium grunts notwithstanding.

I completely disagreed with the 'high church' label pinned on Jochum as that has certainly not been my listening experience, quite the opposite in fact.

No complaints about the winner, though, and only that, and possibly the Furtwangler, would get on my personal list. There are so many superb recordings of this work which weren't even mentioned so programmes such as this have only a very limited value, imv.

Still, even pretty pointless Bruckner discussion is preferable to no Bruckner discussion at all, I suppose ...

[Beef Oven!]

Me too, Beefie. It was full of interesting perspectives and didn't sound like the reading aloud of an essay, which many do.

Neophobia rules ok, apparently.

An essay being read aloud - indeed!

I think that once the usual suspects of Wand, Jochum, Bohm, Karajan et al were quickly given a short back and sides, a large part of the listenership went into protest mode!