Bruckner: Symphony no. 7 BaL 13/12/14

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The list has now been added (neater than the first one ).

[Petrushka]

We used to have a VHS recording of Solti conducting the work at the Proms, a towering performance not matched by the subsequent - a few years later - CD from Chicago.

September 5 1978, Alison. I wasn't there (couldn't make it) but I was there the night before for the Tippett 4th given by Solti and the Chicago SO mentioned on another thread only yesterday. Agree about the Decca Chicago recording. The 1965 VPO recording is a different matter, though. An incandescent performance.

Another Prom performance I did attend was Giulini and the Philharmonia in 1982 available (still?) on a BBC Legends CD.

[visualnickmos]

And I picked up just now that it's going to be one of those 'live in the studio in discussion with AMcG' sessions....

(Interesting to see your notes, EA !! )

Hold on to yer hats! NOT

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

(Interesting to see your notes, EA !! )

Does anyone fancy doing a Nowak/Hass list?

[Alison]

September 5 1978, Alison. I wasn't there (couldn't make it) but I was there the night before for the Tippett 4th given by Solti and the Chicago SO mentioned on another thread only yesterday. Agree about the Decca Chicago recording. The 1965 VPO recording is a different matter, though. An incandescent performance.

Another Prom performance I did attend was Giulini and the Philharmonia in 1982 available (still?) on a BBC Legends CD.

Interesting stuff. Yes, real atmosphere and sense of occasion at the Prom. Apparently a visit from Sir Georg and his band was quite a rare event back then.

[Roehre]

Does anyone fancy doing a Nowak/Hass list?

The only difference is the big cimbal clash in the slow movement, seemingly apporved by Bruckner (confirmed in his own handwriting, but following strong insistence of his friends).
For the rest AFAIK the Haas and Nowak editions are identical.

[mathias broucek]

Always liked Haitink's crisp & urgent early way with this, 1966 or 1972 live...

But if I were to play it now, only one choice: Venzago/Basel SO, with its glistening tonal sheen and transparency, and such a daring, imaginative approach to shaping and shading of phrase and paragraph...

It's brave reviewer etc., etc., they should follow the G's Collection approach and have a few different categories...(historical, classic, radical etc...)

Yes, those categories are extremely helpful; particularly in works where there are multiple performing traditions

[Petrushka]

The only difference is the big cimbal clash in the slow movement, seemingly apporved by Bruckner (confirmed in his own handwriting, but following strong insistence of his friends).
For the rest AFAIK the Haas and Nowak editions are identical.

My understanding was that the cymbal clash is there in the score but someone has written 'gilt nicht' (not valid) over the note and the dispute centres on whether or not this amendment is in Bruckner's handwriting. Most conductors seem to include it (rightly, in my view) though as noted upthread Günter Wand omits not only the cymbal clash but the timpani as well with no known textual justification as far as I know.

Is there a facsimile of the relevant page anywhere?

[Roehre]

My understanding was that the cymbal clash is there in the score but someone has written 'gilt nicht' (not valid) over the note and the dispute centres on whether or not this amendment is in Bruckner's handwriting. Most conductors seem to include it (rightly, in my view) though as noted upthread Günter Wand omits not only the cymbal clash but the timpani as well with no known textual justification as far as I know.

Is there a facsimile of the relevant page anywhere?

The original score does not show the cymbal clash.
There exists however a letter undoubtedly in Bruckner's handwriting with one, and only one amendment to the score: this clash.
There also exists a printed edition of the score with the clash, where that bar has been marked with "gilt nicht".

Now there are two discussion points:
-is "gilt nicht" in Bruckner's handwriting, and:
-is this score the one which was found among Bruckner's papers after his death.
For both questions there are pros and cons.
An extra complication is that another printed score exists with some slight amendments without doubt in Bruckner's hand, IMO negligible, but defining the very slight differences between Haas and Nowak.

[makropulos]

Terrific list - thank you - but one of my favourite versions isn't there:
Czech PO, Lovro von Matacic. Supraphon SU 3781-2 011

As for Haas/Nowak/Gutmann it's not really that much of an issue in this symphony, but all the information about who does what is here:

http://www.abruckner.com/discography/symphonyno7inemajo/

[Petrushka]

The original score does not show the cymbal clash.
There exists however a letter undoubtedly in Bruckner's handwriting with one, and only one amendment to the score: this clash.
There also exists a printed edition of the score with the clash, where that bar has been marked with "gilt nicht".

Now there are two discussion points:
-is "gilt nicht" in Bruckner's handwriting, and:
-is this score the one which was found among Bruckner's papers after his death.
For both questions there are pros and cons.

Thanks for the additional information. It wouldn't be a Bruckner symphony without some textual controversy! Interesting that the cymbal clashes in the 8th (at the same point in the Adagio there too) have never, as far as I am aware, been in doubt and that gives added credence in my eyes to the one in the 7th being valid.

Much as I admired him, I really can't understand why Colin Davis reversed the middle movements of the 7th thus creating a textual controversy that didn't exist!

[Barbirollians]

Why when the last BAL on Bruckner 7 was only done 8 years ago and we have been waiting about 30 for the Eroica - has this come round again . I wonder does anyone at CD Review check when a work was done last ?

[mathias broucek]

Why when the last BAL on Bruckner 7 was only done 8 years ago and we have been waiting about 30 for the Eroica - has this come round again . I wonder does anyone at CD Review check when a work was done last ?

That's half a lifetime for a BBC researcher....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

That's half a lifetime for a BBC researcher....

Ooooh! You are awful!


But ....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]