Originally posted by Conchis
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Which version of the 3rd will you be hearing? For me, Bruckner's first thoughts re. this work were the best. I await jlw's arrival re. the 2nd. -
Hiya Conchis,Originally posted by Conchis View Post
The 3rd 'Wagner' is an excellent work that in my view that deserves to be ranked alongside the 4th to 9th. I don't feel the 1st and 2nd come close to the same high standard. The original 1873 version of the 3rd with the Staatskapelle Dresden conducted by Yannick Nézet-Séguin, recently released on Profil, is well worth obtaining.Last edited by Stanfordian; 27-09-16, 21:12.Comment
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Avid Brucknerian that I am, and I've been listening to the symphonies for over 40 years, I still do not 'get' the 2nd. There are a fair number of versions on my shelves, either as part of boxed sets or individual issues, so it's not for want of trying, yet it still eludes me."The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard HaitinkComment
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Tintner is good in the earlier Symphonies - and unsurpassed in Symphony #2. As good a performance of the "Student" Symphony (the "#00") as the work deserves, and fine performances of Symphony #1 and Die Nullte ("#0"). I was less impressed with Tintner's #3 - preferring Inbal's swifter, more incisive TELDEC recording with the Frankfurt Radio SO. Yannick Nézet-Séguin is one of the most exciting and insightful of today's conductors, and his CD of the Third will certainly go on my "Wish List".
All these are recordings of the original, uncut versions of the scores - which are, I consider, much better than the abridged later revisions - and remove any suspicion about the success of the works: Brahms and the later Bruckner Symphonies (from 5 - 9) aside, these are, I think, the finest Symphonies written between Berlioz and Mahler. Of the revised versions Szell and Barenboim (BPO) are very impressive in #3, as is Karajan in Nos 1 & 2 (so much so that I find it a real jolt in his recording of the latter when the excised passages are reached).[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]Comment
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Have you heard Simone Young's recording of the 2nd. Tempted as I was to listen via the YouTube posting, I have her boxed set on order (due for U.K. release this Friday) so will wait for that. Given her recording of the first version of the 8th, I am expecting good things.Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View PostComment
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Beggur! I'd forgotten that that box is also on my wish list! (And, of course, I should have added "of those I know").Originally posted by Bryn View Post[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]Comment
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I would not wish to labour the point, but what about t'other Herbie's recording with the Gewandhausorchester Leipzig of the 1872 version ed Carragan? Much as I admire Tintner's recording, I would not want to be without the querstand SACD.Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View PostComment
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I'm not an admirer of Blomstedt - so many disappointments in my purchasing past - so I'm afraid I haven't given it any attention.Originally posted by Bryn View Post[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]Comment
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Little time this morning, but don't overlook this lovely set -
Not the least of its attractions is the Carragan 1874 variant of No.3, essentially the same beast as Nowak 1873, but with a warmer sound with additional counterpoints and fuller orchestration, strikingly beautiful in the first movement especially. It's probably the closest we'll come to how Bruckner might have wanted his 3rd to be, before tempted by the possibly populist appeal of abridgement.
But Schaller's songful approach is lovely in itself, his rhythms really dance at the opening of the 1872 Carragan 2nd, and the climaxes are marvellously dynamic and open in the Abtelkirche's spaces.
(Schaller's new 3rd Mass is outstanding too).
I listen almost exclusively to early Bruckner now and recent years have seen an embarrassment of new riches, wth Simone Young, Blomstedt, and Venzago all outstanding in the first three, in various editions. I usually incline to Blomstedt's later Querstand readings with the Gewandhaus - tonally pure, sharply-focussed, brisk and punchy, but with a wonderfully natural idiomatic rubato. All breathing out effortlessly from the expertise of a conductor and orchestra completely at one.... you could see it as from the Schubertian tradition, but this isn't overemphasised. Above all there is a special sense of joy, of sheer exuberance here compared to the weightier, more traditional Germanic character of Young in Hamburg, or the lean textures and idiosyncratic phrasing of Venzago. The latter brings us back to editions, as he uses the Carragan 1877 2nd, a completely valid edition (shorn of the Haas/Nowak restorations from 1872) which I've come to accept as equally fine (and as musically enjoyable!) as the 1872 one, especially if played and recorded as well as it is by the Northern Sinfonia!
Nézet-Séguin's 1873 3rd with the Métropolitain is pretty marvellous too. I've yet to hear his new 2nd, which has gone back to Haas - but at least the note on the CD inlay makes his choice carefully explicit!
Norrington's two recordings of the 1873 3rd have been another recent revelation for me (and his SWR 1874 4th even more so - a truly, uniquely great performance, with wonderful structural focus, a sculpture of time and sonority), but more on that will have to wait till later....Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 01-10-16, 13:45.Comment
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The first two 'positively-numbered' Bruckner symphonies are absolute gems as far as I'm concerned. The influence of Schubert is strong and at they very least both symphonies indicate that the composer was perfectly capable of composing in a more free-flowing, lighthearted manner than the heavier slower-paced later works. The climax of the slow movement of the first ... so typical Bruckner, it seems to magically appear from nowhere just when the composer appears to be 'pottering around' ... is as majestic as anything in the later works and the Adagio of No 2 is simply too beautiful for words. No 3 has been discussed at length here and is probably the most controversial of the symphonies. It is now easy to understand why the conservative Viennese audiences were so flummoxed by this work ... indeed others clearly still are today! This is the first of the truly 'monumental' symphonies quite different from its other two sisters at the time. The two main revisions are the direct result of the reportedly humiliating and quite disastrous performance of the Third's premiere which Bruckner was forced to conduct himself after the previously-hired conductor had suddenly dropped dead a few weeks before the concert ... maybe the poor chap just glanced at the score and was frightened to death? In hindsight and after the passing of many years (always a huge advantage) more and more conductors are now opting for the first version. As a now longtime rabid Brucknerian, I'll settle for any version but the original has better balance and appears less self-conscious-sounding than the revisions, imho.
I do wish we would hear a lot more of the first two symphonies in concert. From memory, the only time I have ever came across No 1 was at the Proms with Georg Solti and the Chicago SO, so no one needs telling how long ago that must have been!. Even Skrowaczewskii strangely omitted it during his golden decade at the Halle in Manchester. He even managed to conduct No 0, the Te Deum and Helgoland and also all the other symphonies which he repeated many times. I remain mystified by that single glaring and, for me, quite inexplicable omission to this day. I feel certain Stan may well have an adequate explanation to provide but it had better be good!
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JLW, I have not thought of Roger Norrington conducting Bruckner. What record company has he recorded them with and also what's the string sound like?Don’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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I have only 2 2s, Pet - the Giulini recording of the 1877 version on Testament - Novak edn, and the Tintner 1872 Carragan on Naxos, which I discovered thanks I think to Jayne. I don't think I really "got" the former, but have fallen in love with the 1872, which I find a thing of great beauty. The Tintner 1 and original (1873 ed. Nowak) 3 are also favourites. Having been introduced to 3 in the 1878 by Haitink (my first live Bruckner, in 1972Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
) the original version came as a revelation. Reading ch 4 of Robert Simpson makes me want to lie down in a darkened room with slices of cucumber over my eyes I'm afraid, posts by Jayne and others** on this forum are more accessible, I find.
**and PG Tipps, I should add
Last edited by Guest; 28-09-16, 08:49.Comment
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I've seen on Spotify, Riccardo Chailly's recording of No.3. Anyone has any thoughts on this?Don’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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Cool, Beefy! Also what edition does he use?Originally posted by Beef Oven! View PostDon’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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