Bruckner: Symphonies No.1-3

[Roehre]

There is an earlier, atypical symphony in F minor, written in 1863 and sometimes referred to as "No 00". It has been recorded at least twice, by Daniel Barenboim and Georg Tintner. I was under the impression that No 1 preceded No 0, but maybe there has been some new research. The late Philip Barford states that No 0 was written completed after No 1 but may have been started earlier.

The premiere recording of the "Study" or no.00 AFAIK was on EMI in 1972: London Symphony with Elyakum Shapirra (with the Overture in c as filler), as is mentioned earlier (#8). Inbal/Frankfurt RSO did it too, as did Ashkenazy/DSO.

No.1 and no.0 were composed at the same time, and there is evidence that no.2 and no.3 are partly contemporary too.
The latter is evidenced i.a. by the presentation of both symphonies to Wagner, who eventually chose no.3 to be dedicated to him.

[jayne lee wilson]

Interested in this Bruckner cycle from Blomstedt but it comes with a hefty price tag attached http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruckner-Sym...kner+blomstedt

Separate issues don't seem to be readily available at least on Amazon UK. I see that Amazon Germany have them but they're not likely to be on the Bargains thread any time soon.

If you search for "Bruckner Blomstedt" on Amazon UK you'll find the separate issues there. Not cheap, but remember you get what you pay for... and in the case of this 2nd and 3rd, something really special. See Richard Osborne's review of the cycle in Gramophone of 11/2013, where he says of the 3rd "sumptuous playing... reveals more persuasively than any previous conductor why, structurally and imaginatively, this [1873] should be the preferred performing version".

I must say I don't have much time for No.0; despite their entangled chronology, No.1 seems to me far superior in its sheer inspirational level and its surer sense of direction - a swift & dramatic narrative thrust - harmonically, structurally and emotionally.
(In the notes to the marvellous CPO/Venzago/Tapiola Sinfonietta 0&1, Die Nullte gets translated as the "Zeroth".. It might just catch on...)

I feel very strongly that only unfamiliarity (and close familiarity with the revised versions, replete with ill-advised textual excisions and alterations) stops any true Brucknerian preferring the Original Versions of the 2nd and 3rd; and remember all of the symphonies, even in Variant texts like Carraghan's of the 1888 8th, now exist in meticulously prepared editions, simply awaiting the patient attentions of dedicated performers and listeners to present or discover their many wonders.

[BBMmk2]

As ever, JLW, thank you so much for your posts!

This seems to me what Roehre has confirmed, the originals, probably the best.

I hadn't thought about the what I call the 'prequel' symphonies.

[richardfinegold]

Time was when I rarely, if ever, listened to the first three Bruckner symphonies. They hardly ever featured on concert programmes (still the case unfortunately) and recordings were thin on the ground, most commentators viewing them as inferior to the great works that followed. For me, that began to change with Haitink's wonderful recording of the 3rd with the Vienna Philharmonic upon its release in 1990. Since then, I've found much pleasure in Abbado's various recordings of No 1. He appears to have had some affection for this symphony having recorded it three times, the latest one with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra of the Vienna version of 1891 (the other two were of the Linz version of 1866).

However, as every boarder must know by now, I still struggle with the 2nd despite having several recordings. Perhaps if Abbado had set down his thoughts or Haitink re-visited the work I might embrace it more wholeheartedly. The fact that Haitink hasn't re-visited it (whether in concert or not I don't know) does suggest to me that he is out of sympathy with it, a feeling I can share.

I didn't listen to these very much in the past. Lately I've developed a fondness for 2. 3 completely eludes me. I like Solti's recording of 1.

[Barbirollians]

I didn't listen to these very much in the past. Lately I've developed a fondness for 2. 3 completely eludes me. I like Solti's recording of 1.

I am with you on Solti and No 1 . Giulini in No 2 I love . The Third I have always found hard work . The Bohm I admire but I don't love .

[pastoralguy]

According to the new issue of Gramophone, (page 9), Barenboim is launching a new label called Peral. The first release, download only, will be Bruckner's first three symphonies. The orchestra is the Berlin Staatskapelle.

[jayne lee wilson]

As ever, JLW, thank you so much for your posts!

This seems to me what Roehre has confirmed, the originals, probably the best.

I hadn't thought about the what I call the 'prequel' symphonies.

What a brilliant idea, Bbm... "ANTON BRUCKNER: THE PREQUELS. (Including "00 Guage" and "The Zeroth".)"
But... are they any better than Star Wars 1-3...?

[LeMartinPecheur]

But... are they any better than Star Wars 1-3...?

Hmmm, Star Wars 1-3, that's a really tough act to follow...

...though I guess it depends rather on which end you're counting from...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

rfg (#19) and Barbi (#20) if you like Solti's First, I wonder if you know Szell's not dissimilar approach in the Third with the Clevelanders? Not easily available, and not to be confused with his recording with the Dresdeners nor with the VPO (neither of which I know) it has a rhythmic precision and sense of momentum that I greatly admire - very different from the Böhm. Worth investigating if it ever comes back on the market, or if you see it in a Charity shop.

[richardfinegold]

rfg (#19) and Barbi (#20) if you like Solti's First, I wonder if you know Szell's not dissimilar approach in the Third with the Clevelanders? Not easily available, and not to be confused with his recording with the Dresdeners nor with the VPO (neither of which I know) it has a rhythmic precision and sense of momentum that I greatly admire - very different from the Böhm. Worth investigating if it ever comes back on the market, or if you see it in a Charity shop.

I am trying to think if I have every heard Szell in Bruckner. Nothing comes to mind, but the thought is intriguing...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I am trying to think if I have every heard Szell in Bruckner. Nothing comes to mind, but the thought is intriguing...

Looking around the various suppliers, it seems that the Third was the Bruckner he recorded most (there are also recordings of the Seventh and Eighth) with three versions. The other two (which are easily available) are from Live recordings - the VPO version is also available on DVD, so we can watch how he conducts it (and has Mozart and Walton - the Hindemith Variations - as "fillers"). My debit card is itching again!

[Bryn]

Hmmm, Star Wars 1-3, that's a really tough act to follow...

...though I guess it depends rather on which end you're counting from...

As with Dvorak symphonies, a renumbering has taken place. The old 1, 2 and 3 are the new IV, V and VI.

[Roehre]

As with Dvorak symphonies, a renumbering has taken place. The old 1, 2 and 3 are the new IV, V and VI.

Am I missing something here?
AFAIK the first 3 star wars were IV, V and VI from the very beginning (mentioned in the begin titles, and hence causing quite a lot of confusion at that time [late 1970s].......)

[Bryn]

Am I missing something here?
AFAIK the first 3 star wars were IV, V and VI from the very beginning (mentioned in the begin titles, and hence causing quite a lot of confusion at that time [late 1970s].......)

The first of the films released was simply called Star Wars in the publicity, and indeed on the box cover of its VHS release:



Yes, the anorak brigade noted the IV in the title sequence, and when The Empire Strikes Back came out, it was thus titled in publicity and on the VHS box:



likewise Return of the Jedi:



Those without the apposite weather wear commonly referred to them either by their titles, or as Star Wars 1, 2 and 3.

[Someone remind me how to shrink images and I will edit that.]

[Barbirollians]

The prequels 1 and 2 were atrocious . If I ever come across them again on TV it will be too soon - I could not face No 3 .

The original movies were brilliant and the Empire Strikes Back my favourite.