Bruckner - Symphony No. 8

[slarty]

Here is a link - http://www.radio4.nl/luister-concert...ch-archief-her > bert-von-karajan-dirgeert-bruckner-8-

For a performance of Bruckner's 8 by the Berlin Philharmonic and Karajan from the 1966 Holland Festival (Concertgebouw, Amsterdam - 16 June 1966)

Superb stereo broadcast.

[amateur51]

This looks worth a bump ...

Many thanks, slarty - keep 'em coming

[slarty]

It is one of his better performances of Bruckner 8, not that he ever gave a bad one, it is also fascinating to hear the BPO from that era in a relatively rare performance from the Concertgebouw, in a stereo broadcast good enough to do justice to that marvellous concert hall acoustic.

[Roehre]

would be interesting what they found of Amsterdam that Thursday, as there were heavy riots then over there, at one moment only at some 200 yards distance from the Concertgebouw....

[Karafan]

I agree, Slarty, a blistering eighth! Thanks

[Bryn]

I'll give it a try, but presumably, being Karajan, it will be the score stitched together with additional linking material by Robert Maria Haas.

[Petrushka]

would be interesting what they found of Amsterdam that Thursday, as there were heavy riots then over there, at one moment only at some 200 yards distance from the Concertgebouw....

Any more info on that, Roehre? What was it all about? I remember June 1966 very well indeed for various personal reasons including my 12th birthday!

I've transferred this performance over to DVD this morning and from a very brief listen to the opening bars it sounds very good indeed. Many thanks to Slarty for the alert.

Searching around the site reveals a Mahler 3 from Abbado and the Concertgebouw in 1978. I wasn't aware that Abbado had conducted the Concertgebouw so this is a real find.

[Beef Oven!]

Bruckner - Symphony No. 8

There's been a fair amount of very interesting general discussion about Bruckner's eighth symphony over the past few days, but it's taken place mainly on a thread specific to Sir Simon's LSO Barbican concert. So I searched for a Bruckner 8 thread and was surprised to find that there isn't one! So here goes!

I've never been bothered about the various performing versions and to a large degree, I'm still not. I prefer to focus on the end result, the music; choosing to judge the symphony, the recordings, the concert performance etc, wholly or mainly on what I hear.

However, that is I admit, a bit lazy and it's certainly not the whole story.

Anyway, earlier today I went on to the website 'abruckner.com' which as you might expect is a wealth of information on the man. I checked the discography section as I wanted to see which conductors use which editions and I saw a name I'd seen often enough, but had never pursued - Takashi Asahina (1908-2001). I decided to take the plunge and get his recording of the eighth. I must say that I was surprised to hear what a very good performance it is. And it was quite cheap as a 16 Bit CD quality download from Qobuz for £7.99. A live recording with the Osaka Philharmonic Orchestra. The sound quality is in my opinion, absolutely top-drawer.

Asahina uses the Haas version and delivers music that is so powerful and dramatic yet subtle and elegant. I can't help feeling that t's not a coincidence that the best performances are so often the Haas versions (but obviously not always).

I could find no reviews of this or any other of his recordings (in terms of Bruckner there's a fair few including 4, 5, 7, 8 & 9), not even in Gramophone, Musicweb or Classics Today (in fact their search mechanisms don't appear to recognise the name!).

He was clearly a top musician and I would urge people to hear this Bruckner 8.

Last thing, I really like this excerpt from his obituary in the Independent:

"I first saw him conduct the Alpine Symphony of Strauss in 1991, having never heard of him and having no idea what he was like. I went out of respect for my hosts (I was a judge in a conducting competition), and when I saw this elderly man walking out to the podium my expectations were low. The performance was, from the outset, remarkable, and within five minutes I was convinced that I was watching (and hearing) a major conductor. Though the tempi were slow, he managed to get his orchestra to sustain the line over long phrases. Bar lines disappeared – he conducted in paragraphs, not sentences. His sonority was built from the bottom up, founded on the basses and cellos, and also built around a rich string sound. Although the music had force and power, it was never angular, never overly aggressive. It always had beauty, an inner beauty and even spirituality."

[Tony Halstead]

There's been a fair amount of very interesting general discussion about Bruckner's eighth symphony over the past few days, but it's taken place mainly on a thread specific to Sir Simon's LSO Barbican concert. So I searched for a Bruckner 8 thread and was surprised to find that there isn't one! So here goes!

I've never been bothered about the various performing versions and to a large degree, I'm still not. I prefer to focus on the end result, the music; choosing to judge the symphony, the recordings, the concert performance etc, wholly or mainly on what I hear.

However, that is I admit, a bit lazy and it's certainly not the whole story.

Anyway, earlier today I went on to the website 'abruckner.com' which as you might expect is a wealth of information on the man. I checked the discography section as I wanted to see which conductors use which editions and I saw a name I'd seen often enough, but had never pursued - Takashi Asahina (1908-2001). I decided to take the plunge and get his recording of the eighth. I must say that I was surprised to hear what a very good performance it is. And it was quite cheap as a 16 Bit CD quality download from Qobuz for £7.99. A live recording with the Osaka Philharmonic Orchestra. The sound quality is in my opinion, absolutely top-drawer.

Asahina uses the Haas version and delivers music that is so powerful and dramatic yet subtle and elegant. I can't help feeling that t's not a coincidence that the best performances are so often the Haas versions (but obviously not always).

I could find no reviews of this or any other of his recordings (in terms of Bruckner there's a fair few including 4, 5, 7, 8 & 9), not even in Gramophone, Musicweb or Classics Today (in fact their search mechanisms don't appear to recognise the name!).

He was clearly a top musician and I would urge people to hear this Bruckner 8.

Last thing, I really like this excerpt from his obituary in the Independent:

"I first saw him conduct the Alpine Symphony of Strauss in 1991, having never heard of him and having no idea what he was like. I went out of respect for my hosts (I was a judge in a conducting competition), and when I saw this elderly man walking out to the podium my expectations were low. The performance was, from the outset, remarkable, and within five minutes I was convinced that I was watching (and hearing) a major conductor. Though the tempi were slow, he managed to get his orchestra to sustain the line over long phrases. Bar lines disappeared – he conducted in paragraphs, not sentences. His sonority was built from the bottom up, founded on the basses and cellos, and also built around a rich string sound. Although the music had force and power, it was never angular, never overly aggressive. It always had beauty, an inner beauty and even spirituality."

Who wrote that ( Independent) obit?

[Beef Oven!]

Who wrote that ( Independent) obit?

I should have cited it - here's the link http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ob...a-9198620.html

[Beef Oven!]

[waldo]

Never heard of Ashahina, but will look out for it......

I've just gone through my Bruckner 8s to see what editions crop out - something I have never done before.

Simone Young/Hamburg (Nowak 1887)
Dohnanyi/Cleveland (Haas)
Haitink/VPO (Haas)
Sinopoli/Dresden (Nowak - 1890, I think)
Maazel/BPO (Nowak 1890)
Tennstedt/LPO (Nowak 1890)
Thielemann/Dresden (Haas)
Wand/BPO ("Original Version"? - meaning Haas, probably)
Tintner/NSOI (Nowak 1887)
Jochum/Dresden (?Doesn't say. Haas, by the look of it)
Janowski/Suisse Romande (Nowak 1890)
Giulini/VPO (Nowak 1890)
Celibidache/Munich (Nowak 1890)

Quite a mixture...........I am not sure I would agree that the "Haas" version usually comes out as the best. The most important factor (for me) has to be the orchestra and the conductor, rather than the edition. My top 2 personal favourites - Young and Giulini - happen to be Nowaks, but I don't think that is the deciding factor.

[Nick Armstrong]

The most important factor (for me) has to be the orchestra and the conductor, rather than the edition. My top 2 personal favourites - Young and Giulini - happen to be Nowaks

Me too. And the Bruckner 8 I return to most often is an 1890 Nowak too - the studio recording by Tennstedt and the LPO.

(It was recorded in September 1982 at Abbey Road, the year after the 'LPO Live' performance from the RFH which for me is let down by the recorded sound, and in terms of performance does not eclipse the studio version).

[Beef Oven!]

Never heard of Ashahina, but will look out for it......

I've just gone through my Bruckner 8s to see what editions crop out - something I have never done before.

Simone Young/Hamburg (Nowak 1887)
Dohnanyi/Cleveland (Haas)
Haitink/VPO (Haas)
Sinopoli/Dresden (Nowak - 1890, I think)
Maazel/BPO (Nowak 1890)
Tennstedt/LPO (Nowak 1890)
Thielemann/Dresden (Haas)
Wand/BPO ("Original Version"? - meaning Haas, probably)
Tintner/NSOI (Nowak 1887)
Jochum/Dresden (?Doesn't say. Haas, by the look of it)
Janowski/Suisse Romande (Nowak 1890)
Giulini/VPO (Nowak 1890)
Celibidache/Munich (Nowak 1890)

Quite a mixture...........I am not sure I would agree that the "Haas" version usually comes out as the best. The most important factor (for me) has to be the orchestra and the conductor, rather than the edition. My top 2 personal favourites - Young and Giulini - happen to be Nowaks, but I don't think that is the deciding factor.

I've never done it either.......but


Bohm Tonhalle - Haas
Karajan BPO 1957 - Haas
Karajan BPO 1975 - Haas
Karajan VPO - Haas
Barbirolli Halle - Haas
Goodall BBSO - Haas
Thielemann Dresden - Haas
Kubelik Bavarian RSO - Haas
Asahina - Haas
Barenboim BPO - Haas
Boulez VPO - Haas
Schuricht VPO - Haas
Wand BPO - Haas
Wand Köln - Haas

_________________________


Celibidache MPO - Novak
Chailly Concertgebouw - Novak
Giuliani VPO - Novak
Jochum BPO - Novak
Jochum S Dresden - Novak
Klemperer N Philharmonia - Novak
Maazel BPO - Novak
Tennstedt LPO - Novak
Harnoncourt BPO - Novak


__________________________

Various Furtwangler & Knappertsbusch that I don't have the energy to list - mainly Schalk, I think.

__________________________

Wish list?

Van Zweden Nederlands RP - Novak
Venzago Konzerhausorchester Berlin - Novak
Giulini BPO 1984 (Testament) - Novak

_____________________________

Favourites?

Karajan VPO - Haas
Celibidache - Novak
Boulez VPO - Haas
Bohm Tonhalle - Novak
Asahina Osaka PO (today!!) - Haas


So in terms of my favourites, it's pretty evenly split between Haas and Novak


.

[waldo]

Quite a list. I feel as if I have been trumped. I'll see your Haitink and raise you three Karajans.

Van Zweden is top of my wish list, too. I have listened to fairly big chunks on Spotify and it really does sound like it is the business. Hopefully, there will be a Zweden Bruckner box set at some point.......I'd also like to get my hands on the Blomstedt/Leipzig set, but it doesn't seem to be coming down in price. Still hovering around the £100 mark, which is out of the question.