Bruckner - Symphony No. 8

[Mandryka]

I'm very keen to see the booklet of the Nagano if anyone can share it.

[BillMatters]

No, but I did hear this 'original ' version years ago in the Bob Simpson days. I didn't like it, I'm afraid. It includes a fortissimo tutti ending to the first movement.

Does anyone remember the Radio 3 series 'A grand mysterious harmony' where they played all the versions of all the symphonies? Wjhat apoty Rdaio 3 doesn't do anything like that these days; but then we all know why. .

I think it was Stephen Johnson who presented the programme, and it would be great to repeat it (or a new version with SJ) in this bicentenary year.

[Mandryka]

Goodall Bruckner 8.

A rather touching anecdote about the performance here

https://liner-notes-magazine.com/articles/a-reluctant-maestro-conducts-bruckners-eighth/

I only saw Goodall once, a Parsifal. He really had a cult following here, I have memories of talking to his followers in the queue for cheap amphi tickets at Covent Garden. Solti's bitchy remark in that article above, that he was not "capable of live conducting" is thought provoking in its way. IMO his Bruckner 8 isn't quite dead.

This comment which I found on amazon seems right to me

But Goodall offers something different - a sense of struggle, wonderment, uncertainty about the destination, which is surely part of the essence of Bruckner and especially of this uniquely disturbing symphony.

That comment reminds me of ideas about how to play Schubert's piano sonatas - Lonquich, Richter's 1961 Paris D840.

[smittims]

Thanks for that. I love that Goodall Bruckner 8. Few others get closer to the heart of the work , for me.

[Mandryka]

No, but I did hear this 'original ' version years ago in the Bob Simpson days. I didn't like it, I'm afraid. It includes a fortissimo tutti ending to the first movement.

Does anyone remember the Radio 3 series 'A grand mysterious harmony' where they played all the versions of all the symphonies? Wjhat apoty Rdaio 3 doesn't do anything like that these days; but then we all know why. .

I find Nagano very satisfying, though I'm not sure whether it's a question of interpretation or edition, probably both. In the first movement there's a passage around 16:20 which is real special for me, and about 12:30 too.

[Barbirollians]

Goodall Bruckner 8.

A rather touching anecdote about the performance here

https://liner-notes-magazine.com/articles/a-reluctant-maestro-conducts-bruckners-eighth/

I only saw Goodall once, a Parsifal. He really had a cult following here, I have memories of talking to his followers in the queue for cheap amphi tickets at Covent Garden. Solti's bitchy remark in that article above, that he was not "capable of live conducting" is thought provoking in its way. IMO his Bruckner 8 isn't quite dead.

This comment which I found on amazon seems right to me

But Goodall offers something different - a sense of struggle, wonderment, uncertainty about the destination, which is surely part of the essence of Bruckner and especially of this uniquely disturbing symphony.

That comment reminds me of ideas about how to play Schubert's piano sonatas - Lonquich, Richter's 1961 Paris D840.

I recall RO savaged it in Gramophone.

But then praised a recording of another Bruckner symphony by him . I haven’t heard either as I don’t like listening to an avowed fascist and Holocaust denier conduct.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Goodall Bruckner 8.

A rather touching anecdote about the performance here

https://liner-notes-magazine.com/articles/a-reluctant-maestro-conducts-bruckners-eighth/

I only saw Goodall once, a Parsifal. He really had a cult following here, I have memories of talking to his followers in the queue for cheap amphi tickets at Covent Garden. Solti's bitchy remark in that article above, that he was not "capable of live conducting" is thought provoking in its way. IMO his Bruckner 8 isn't quite dead.

This comment which I found on amazon seems right to me

But Goodall offers something different - a sense of struggle, wonderment, uncertainty about the destination, which is surely part of the essence of Bruckner and especially of this uniquely disturbing symphony.

That comment reminds me of ideas about how to play Schubert's piano sonatas - Lonquich, Richter's 1961 Paris D840.

I saw him several times in Tristan , The Ring , Mastersingers . With the exception of Carlos Kleiber the greatest Opera conductor I’ve ever seen live. Solti’s Wagner (live ) was superficial in comparison.
Stately tempi certainly but what he got out of the singers and orchestra - I’ve rarely heard the like. And that unerring focus on the end . The way he built to the climax of an Act. I still get tingles thinking about Act 2 Gotterdamerung.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I recall RO savaged it in Gramophone.

But then praised a recording of another Bruckner symphony by him . I haven’t heard either as I don’t like listening to an avowed fascist and Holocaust denier conduct.

Yes that’s what really hampered his career at the ROH as I gather the Royal Family amongst others felt the same. Thankfully Lord Harewood , who fought with some distinction in the War , had a more forgiving nature.

[richardfinegold]

Goodall Bruckner 8.

A rather touching anecdote about the performance here

https://liner-notes-magazine.com/articles/a-reluctant-maestro-conducts-bruckners-eighth/

I only saw Goodall once, a Parsifal. He really had a cult following here, I have memories of talking to his followers in the queue for cheap amphi tickets at Covent Garden. Solti's bitchy remark in that article above, that he was not "capable of live conducting" is thought provoking in its way. IMO his Bruckner 8 isn't quite dead.

This comment which I found on amazon seems right to me

But Goodall offers something different - a sense of struggle, wonderment, uncertainty about the destination, which is surely part of the essence of Bruckner and especially of this uniquely disturbing symphony.

That comment reminds me of ideas about how to play Schubert's piano sonatas - Lonquich, Richter's 1961 Paris D840.

Did Goodall wear his British Fascist Blackshirt while conducting?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Did Goodall wear his British Fascist Blackshirt while conducting?

No he wore a dinner jacket and bow tie when at ENO like the orchestra.
As it happens Pappano wears a black shirt with high collar but I’m pretty sure he’s not a fascist !
There were plenty of fascists in all circles of British society in the 30’s including quite a few who mixed in Royal circles. Goodall made the mistake of not keeping his mouth shut when war broke out. In fact he was a pretty active pro-Hitlerite - borderline traitor really . Luckily for him he didn’t do much more than chalk graffiti and generally gob off . Amazing how tolerant we were as a nation.Doing the same thing in Germany (ie being pro British ) would have meant the guillotine after a show trial.

[richardfinegold]

No he wore a dinner jacket and bow tie when at ENO like the orchestra.
As it happens Pappano wears a black shirt with high collar but I’m pretty sure he’s not a fascist !
There were plenty of fascists in all circles of British society in the 30’s including quite a few who mixed in Royal circles. Goodall made the mistake of not keeping his mouth shut when war broke out. In fact he was a pretty active pro-Hitlerite - borderline traitor really . Luckily for him he didn’t do much more than chalk graffiti and generally gob off . Amazing how tolerant we were as a nation.Doing the same thing in Germany (ie being pro British ) would have meant the guillotine after a show trial.

According to his bio in Wiki he joined Mosley formally 5 days after Britain declared war on Germany. He also denounced the Holocaust as a Zionist-BBC hoax. I wonder how many relatives of British servicemen killed in the War sat through his concerts. Surely with the plethora or Bruckner Eight recordings available we can focus on some other conductors

[Ein Heldenleben]

According to his bio in Wiki he joined Mosley formally 5 days after Britain declared war on Germany. He also denounced the Holocaust as a Zionist-BBC hoax. I wonder how many relatives of British servicemen killed in the War sat through his concerts. Surely with the plethora or Bruckner Eight recordings available we can focus on some other conductors

Well Furtwangler and Karajan were rehabilitated after the war - though technically they weren’t traitors . Fact is that even in Germany deNazificaton was not pursued ruthlessly as it pretty soon became apparent that the country couldn’t function if every loyal Nazi was imprisoned . The “hearts and minds “ element was one of the more successful aspects of the Marshall Plan - a concept that seems completely beyond contemporary US and UK politicians as the latter , amongst other things , destroy the BBC world service. The resurgence of neo Nazi-ism in Germany and Austria, and anti- Semitism across Europe has a depressingly here we go again feel to it.

[Barbirollians]

Yes that’s what really hampered his career at the ROH as I gather the Royal Family amongst others felt the same. Thankfully Lord Harewood , who fought with some distinction in the War , had a more forgiving nature.

I think it was amazing that Solti even agreed to allow him into the building . I think the Royal Family were spot on .

[Ein Heldenleben]

I think it was amazing that Solti even agreed to allow him into the building . I think the Royal Family were spot on .

You could be blackballed by the Royals for a lot less than active Nazi-ism. Leaving in a “state of funk “ in the 1939/40 chaos for the States didn’t go down well either.

[smittims]

I wonder if I'm alone in having difficulty understanding the disapproval of a musician's performances because of his political opinions. Freedom of opinion and freedom of speech were surely what we are suposed to be in favour of. When Otto Klemperer went back to Germany in 1946 they said 'our first oboe is not very good. We have a better one but he was a Nazi. Which would you prefer?' . Klemperer, whose career was ruined by the Nazis in 1933 and had to flee for his life, said 'the Nazi, of course'. And Yehudi Menuhin insisted in performing with Futwangler after 1945.

Webern was pro-Nazi too, but I don't think that makes his music rubbish. Maybe we have to decide if music is more important than politics. I'm sorry if this is crudely-put for some more sophisticated intellects here, but I don't think Reggie Goodall damaged the allied cause and I'd rather hear his Bruckner 8 than hear that he'd been 'cancelled' because of his politics.