Bruckner - Symphony No. 8

[Petrushka]

I’m enjoying this Bruckner 8 with Barenboim and the Berlin Statskapelle at the RFH in 2012 which is currently on R3 . With the Bruckner 5 from Abbado earlier in the week it has been a good few days for Bruckner enthusiasts …no doubt quite a few forumites were at this concert as well.

Yes indeed, I was one of them! If I remember correctly this was the concert when a couple of the double basses failed to show up, for what reason I can't remember supposing I ever knew. Got lost? Traffic trouble? Got the wrong evening? Whatever it was Barenboim went ahead without them. No doubt they faced his wrath later on.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes indeed, I was one of them! If I remember correctly this was the concert when a couple of the double basses failed to show up, for what reason I can't remember supposing I ever knew. Got lost? Traffic trouble? Got the wrong evening? Whatever it was Barenboim went ahead without them. No doubt they faced his wrath later on.

How very unusual .. . Bass line sounded fine tonight . Horns had a few trying moments . ‘‘Twas ever thus…

[oddoneout]

Yes indeed, I was one of them! If I remember correctly this was the concert when a couple of the double basses failed to show up, for what reason I can't remember supposing I ever knew. Got lost? Traffic trouble? Got the wrong evening? Whatever it was Barenboim went ahead without them. No doubt they faced his wrath later on.

Martin Handley was explaining this morning on Breakfast the slight difficulty getting the performance started. Previous concerts in the series had had a Mozart piano concerto to begin the programme, and some orchestra members had assumed the same for this one and were having a meal as they weren't needed until later - as they thought. Barenboim didn't want to start until the full complement was present but pressure was brought to bear as it was a live transmission. I think MH said that Barenboim continued to grumble between movements.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Martin Handley was explaining this morning on Breakfast the slight difficulty getting the performance started. Previous concerts in the series had had a Mozart piano concerto to begin the programme, and some orchestra members had assumed the same for this one and were having a meal as they weren't needed until later - as they thought. Barenboim didn't want to start until the full complement was present but pressure was brought to bear as it was a live transmission. I think MH said that Barenboim continued to grumble between movements.

Amazing story - thanks !

[Alison]

What happened to the harp arpeggios at climax of (iii)?

[Ein Heldenleben]

What happened to the harp arpeggios at climax of (iii)?

Were they lost in the mix or was it the other edition? I thought the harps were a bit faint tonight and I am a bit hazy on Bruckner editions without the score in front of me …

[Alison]

I’m pretty sure they form part of Haas. Looking forward to a second and more concentrated listen during the week.

Some lovely instrumental stuff but wasn’t so impressed with the tutti sound of the orchestra.

Not sure Barenboim truly nailed the adagio or finale either, the excellent first movement had promised more somehow.

[Petrushka]

Martin Handley was explaining this morning on Breakfast the slight difficulty getting the performance started. Previous concerts in the series had had a Mozart piano concerto to begin the programme, and some orchestra members had assumed the same for this one and were having a meal as they weren't needed until later - as they thought. Barenboim didn't want to start until the full complement was present but pressure was brought to bear as it was a live transmission. I think MH said that Barenboim continued to grumble between movements.

Thanks for that explanation. I always did wonder what had happened. Interesting that similar pressure wasn't brought to bear on Gennadi Rozhdestvensky back in 1979 when the BBCSO bass trombonist for a complete performance of Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty was stuck in traffic necessitating a half hour delay and a live broadcast that went on until around 10.30.

[edashtav]

I’m pretty sure they form part of Haas. Looking forward to a second and more concentrated listen during the week.

Some lovely instrumental stuff but wasn’t so impressed with the tutti sound of the orchestra.

Not sure Barenboim truly nailed the adagio or finale either, the excellent first movement had promised more somehow.

I agree that the performance failed to deliver on the promise of the first movement. It’s sum was less than the total of its parts. I was expecting more authority.

[DracoM]

Totally agree. A disappointment for me. Sorry............

[jayne lee wilson]

Were they lost in the mix or was it the other edition? I thought the harps were a bit faint tonight and I am a bit hazy on Bruckner editions without the score in front of me …

Haas has the harps exposed (a thrilling effect, especially after their expressive prominence in the trio); Nowak maintains the violins in support. But in several of Barenboim's recordings ostensibly of Haas, they are subdued-to-inaudible, suggesting an adjustment by the conductor. In his Teldec BPO recording, the violins play right across those harps just after the adagio climax as per Nowak(**). (He's not alone in this type of adjustment, of course....).

In his latest Berlin Staatskapelle cycle, they are literally inaudible. They might as well not be there. But there is a wide variation in their audibility generally, due to acoustic character, and the sustain from the climax. And conductor-attentions, of course...

(**) In his BPO Teldec 2nd, Barenboim plays the 1877 Carragan, but..... brings in the 1892 first published edition peroration....

[Ein Heldenleben]

Haas has the harps exposed (a thrilling effect, especially after their expressive prominence in the trio); Nowak maintains the violins in support. But in several of Barenboim's recordings ostensibly of Haas, they are subdued-to-inaudible, suggesting an adjustment by the conductor. In his Teldec BPO recording, the violins play right across those harps just after the adagio climax as per Nowak(**). (He's not alone in this type of adjustment, of course....).

In his latest Berlin Staatskapelle cycle, they are literally inaudible. They might as well not be there. But there is a wide variation in their audibility generally, due to acoustic character, and the sustain from the climax. And conductor-attentions, of course...

(**) In his BPO Teldec 2nd, Barenboim plays the 1877 Carragan, but..... brings in the 1892 first published edition peroration....

Thanks very much . Might listen again with the Score(S) but tbh despite a good first movement things started going awry in the second.

[JasonPalmer]

Listening to the 8th now from a boxed set I got from amazon, was very cheap with rave reviews, the box does not mention the orchestra but think it was something associated with a radio station. Anyway, is nice and something to enjoy before the 2pm afternoon concert from Tokyo.

[Mandryka]

Well Kent Nagano might well think so. For him, the 1887 original reveals Bruckner the modernist in a way vitiated in the revisions (as he does re. the 4th, etc.). By the way, what do yo mean by "the 1890 version (in either of its variants)". You do not intend to include the Haas pick and mix job, I hope. Have you heard the Carragan edition of the 1888 variant? I found that quite fascinating.

Browsing this thread this comment caught my attention. Has anyone else heard the Nagano? (I'm listening to it now for the first time.)

[smittims]

No, but I did hear this 'original ' version years ago in the Bob Simpson days. I didn't like it, I'm afraid. It includes a fortissimo tutti ending to the first movement.

Does anyone remember the Radio 3 series 'A grand mysterious harmony' where they played all the versions of all the symphonies? Wjhat apoty Rdaio 3 doesn't do anything like that these days; but then we all know why. .