Bruckner 6

[Dave2002]

Wot - no posts today - yet!

I have Tintner on CD, and today I found it on Amazon Music, so I'm trying that (the CD will be somewhere - probably inaccessible right now ...). It's not on Qobuz I think, which makes me somewhat cautious about abandoning buying CDs and SACDs, as the assumption that streaming/download services will always provide is probably a false one. Yesterday I tried Klemperer - pretty hard - steady - some people might like that. Tintner has more cushioned sound.

I tried a few other recordings yesterday - not all B6 - but similar Bruckner. The Rosbaud I tried was pretty atrocious, and reminded me of one of the few LPs I sold on - Mahler 7 with Rosbaud. Some recordings have a lot of ambience - which others might not like, while some have close miked solos, but reasonable overall ambience, and others have hardly any ambience at all. Does it matter?

PS: I tried to find the new Haitink on Qobuz - but only found an earlier one. Is it available there?

[HighlandDougie]

PS: I tried to find the new Haitink on Qobuz - but only found an earlier one. Is it available there?

Not sure about streaming but I've just bought the hi-res download from Qobuz to which I'm listening as I type:

https://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/bruckner-symphony-no-6-symphonieorchester-des-bayerischen-rundfunks-bernard-haitink/4035719001471?qref=dac_11

I'm of the school that thinks that Bernard Haitink can do little or nothing wrong (and some things better than anyone - like his Bavarian RSO Bruckner 5th) and, lo, this 6th is as fine as one might have hoped. As someone else said earlier, "straight to the top of the class". The (usually unspeakably irritating) David Hurwitz's - to me, egregious comment - "Well what d’ya know? The old man’s got some piss and vinegar in him still", should demand that Hurwitz be smacked forthwith but to me is spot on if he is implying the vigour with which BH approaches the work.

[jayne lee wilson]

Wot - no posts today - yet!

I have Tintner on CD, and today I found it on Amazon Music, so I'm trying that (the CD will be somewhere - probably inaccessible right now ...). It's not on Qobuz I think, which makes me somewhat cautious about abandoning buying CDs and SACDs, as the assumption that streaming/download services will always provide is probably a false one. Yesterday I tried Klemperer - pretty hard - steady - some people might like that. Tintner has more cushioned sound.

I tried a few other recordings yesterday - not all B6 - but similar Bruckner. The Rosbaud I tried was pretty atrocious, and reminded me of one of the few LPs I sold on - Mahler 7 with Rosbaud. Some recordings have a lot of ambience - which others might not like, while some have close miked solos, but reasonable overall ambience, and others have hardly any ambience at all. Does it matter?

PS: I tried to find the new Haitink on Qobuz - but only found an earlier one. Is it available there?

Yes, you can stream the latest Haitink B6 on Qobuz... very good it sounds. But I'm surprised by your comment on the SWR B&B Rosbaud which - listening to its new CD remastering from last October's boxset release - sounds beautifully balanced both in sound and interpretation: detailed, immediate but not too close, good dynamic range for 1961 Mono... I've listened to it repeatedly over the last few days, so here's a summary of my observations....

At the very start of Rosbaud’s Bruckner 6 I took this to be a very mid-20thC Bruckner: incisive, clear-textured, wind/brass well foregrounded; the strings gutty and strong, not luxuriant.. But it is idiomatic Bruckner too, instinctively sure of its rhythmic, tempo and dynamic calculations. As the work progresses, you never feel shortchanged by any aspect of expression; the gesangsperioden in both outer moments are fullheartedly sung-out, with a lovely tempo giusto feel.
So the adagio begins beautifully as you’d expect; but when the second group develops, the performance blossoms tonally and melodically, singing its “endless melody” in a very Austrian, pastoral style, yet not in the least Romanticised or “overripe”. It’s marvellously sustained yet un-exagerrated. I prefer a 14’-16’ adagio these days with some volatility too, so this is steadier than I usually like at over 18’, but soon won me over. The scherzo, creeping in at a very moderate pace feels - just right, again: waking up from the adagio’s revery but finding itself in the naturally cautious, one-step-at-a-time quirky world of the night. Rosbaud creates a lovely, almost ruminative, schwung to the whole piece, and the trio’s self-quotations are aptly humorous (something van Zweden misses completely).

Impact and energy in the finale as you’d hope, at perfectly brisk 14'16 (I find Norrington (12'08) just too quick here, largely because his tempi are so unyielding; Andreae is almost as quick at a hair-raising 12'17, BUT he allows the lyrical episode - of which this finale's example is one of Bruckner's loveliest - to breathe and flourish wonderfully); there’s that wonderful flowering of melody in the gesang again, lifting the heart; …..but what repeated hearings make clear is Rosbaud’s sure grasp of the complex of ever-evolving tunes through the dovetailing of the sonata-form backgrounds; how those little two-and-three-note motifs transform themselves as the goal approaches, urging it on. The end itself is one of the most blazingly clamorous on record, really thrilling.

This appears to be the first commercial release of the Rosbaud B6; so, despite some moments of orchestral indiscipline and tonal roughness, a significant Brucknerian landmark.

[richardfinegold]

I think After listening to this work for the last 2 weeks or so I need a hiatus from it. The Haitink arrived and I was impressed but just to saturated by the piece to properly evaluate it.
In the next two weeks I will be hearing Beethoven 4th Symphony, Haydn 104 and Tchaikovsky’s Rococo Variations in Detroit, then Manfred Honeck leading the CSO in Mahler 5 and Mozart PC 25 (Till Fellner), so I am going to concentrate on those works until those concerts have passed, and then give the Haitink the attention that it deserves

[jayne lee wilson]

I wondered if I felt the same, but then, early this morning....

BRUCKNER
Symphony No.6
Vienna Symphony Orchestra/Volkmar Andreae. Music & Arts CD 2009, rec. 1953.

Stunned as ever by this performance, at 50'49 probably the most volatile and physically exciting on record, dynamic in every sense. That perfectly idiomatic 1950s Vienna sound, so right for Bruckner, offsetting a marvellously expressive rubato, is a major feature in the unique successes of this recording. Never mind top 5, it's top 3! The way Andreae rollercoasters through the finale development makes you think "this is Bruckner's Symphonie Fantastique!" The Aaron Z Snyder restoration is excellent with good dynamic range for the time. I should add that the infamously untidy VSO ensemble isn't much in evidence here (all too obvious in the 9th though ), brass and strings both play outstandingly well, with a lovely Viennese character.

This performance makes you love the 6th even more, want to hear the 6th, more, again (which could be said for most of this earliest-of-all Bruckner Cycles). Alas the box price has soared away into unreality, and even the mp3 downloads aren't exactly cheap! Just keep an eye out for it and don't hesitate if you see it for a good price. It's far more than a historical document.
(Unavailable to stream on Qobuz, but it does appear to be on Spotify, not sure how the mono sound will come through the lossy codec though. May be OK.)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruckner-9-Symphonies-Anton/dp/B002A5ZLHU/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=AH0AE2ZA4XDT3Q38MA8E

[BBMmk2]

I have just been thinking about conductors who should be interpretating the music of Bruckner? I was thinking of Francois Xavier Roth?

[Alain Maréchal]

I have just been thinking about conductors who should be interpretating the music of Bruckner? I was thinking of Francois Xavier Roth?

He does, in Cologne. Possibly elsewhere as well.

[prb]

I wondered if I felt the same, but then, early this morning....

BRUCKNER
Symphony No.6
Vienna Symphony Orchestra/Volkmar Andreae. Music & Arts CD 2009, rec. 1953.
...

(Unavailable to stream on Qobuz, but it does appear to be on Spotify, not sure how the mono sound will come through the lossy codec though. May be OK.)

It is on Qobuz: open.qobuz.com/album/0017685122729

I thought I came across it a few months ago, but it wasn't very easy to find it again. I ended up searching for 'Music and Arts' and scrolling down a long way.

[french frank]

It is on Qobuz: open.qobuz.com/album/0017685122729

I thought I came across it a few months ago, but it wasn't very easy to find it again. I ended up searching for 'Music and Arts' and scrolling down a long way.

Hello, prb - welcome. Useful info

[jayne lee wilson]

It is on Qobuz: open.qobuz.com/album/0017685122729

I thought I came across it a few months ago, but it wasn't very easy to find it again. I ended up searching for 'Music and Arts' and scrolling down a long way.

Brilliant (well, patient & persistent) detective work. Here's the hyperlink....

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/bruckner-a-9-symphonien-anton-bruckner/0017685122729

Searching Qobuz (Discover) in Audirvana+, "Music & Arts Bruckner" brings it up; various "Volkmar/Andreae" etc. searches don't seem to get you there.
God knows why I didn't think of that the other night.... Neither patient nor persistent, obviously.

....anyway, should be in every true Brucknerian's collection (or Favourites). Indispensable.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=224693

[Cockney Sparrow]

It is on Qobuz: open.qobuz.com/album/0017685122729 .....I thought I came across it a few months ago, but it wasn't very easy to find it again. I ended up searching for 'Music and Arts' and scrolling down a long way.

The Vienna Symphony, Andreae set is also on Naxos Music Library (details here #29): http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...409#post643409 - with PDF booklet of 20 pages in English).
(And "Vienna Symphony, Andreae Bruckner" brings it up on Google Play Music and Spotify)

[jayne lee wilson]

The Vienna Symphony, Andreae set is also on Naxos Music Library (details here #29): http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...409#post643409 - with PDF booklet of 20 pages in English).
(And "Vienna Symphony, Andreae Bruckner" brings it up on Google Play Music and Spotify)

Yes - the booklet is both informative and very insightful into Bruckner performance styles and traditions, not just Andreae himself. A really good read!

Finished No.4 (on the M&A CD) this morning, still marvelling over it. Had to encore the andante & must go back to the 1st movement again...

[Barbirollians]

Not sure about streaming but I've just bought the hi-res download from Qobuz to which I'm listening as I type:

https://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/bruckner-symphony-no-6-symphonieorchester-des-bayerischen-rundfunks-bernard-haitink/4035719001471?qref=dac_11

I'm of the school that thinks that Bernard Haitink can do little or nothing wrong (and some things better than anyone - like his Bavarian RSO Bruckner 5th) and, lo, this 6th is as fine as one might have hoped. As someone else said earlier, "straight to the top of the class". The (usually unspeakably irritating) David Hurwitz's - to me, egregious comment - "Well what d’ya know? The old man’s got some piss and vinegar in him still", should demand that Hurwitz be smacked forthwith but to me is spot on if he is implying the vigour with which BH approaches the work.

Egregious flatters Hurwitz . One only has to read his review of the 1938 VPO/Walter Mahler 9 to realise one is in the presence of a fool .

Haitink's Bruckner 6 is very fine indeed and joins Norrington and Klemperer as one of my three favourites.

[Bryn]

Get in quick if you want to hear this Gergiev directed performance:

https://player.vimeo.com/video/538662076