Bach, C P E

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If it is right to say he was a sole influence on what came immediately in his wake, then I think we have to say the CPE Bach was indeed a great composer.

Oh, not necessarily, S_A: a creative artist stands by the merits of his/her own work, not by the influence they have on subsequent artists. There are many painters, poets, sculptors, composers, novelists etc who have produced work that hasn't appealed to later audiences/readers/viewers but whose immediate influence was widespread. (Again, I'm not specifying CPE amongst these, just picking up the general point you make.)

[Suffolkcoastal]

The term 'Great' is like 'Genius' used far too much these days, so that the boundaries between genuinely 'Great' people in a particular field and very talented by slighter lesser mortals become blurred, and who ultimately decides that a person is 'Great'?

CPE Bach has certainly benefited from the exposure his tri-centenary has created, and personally I judged him to be much finer and more individual composer on recent hearings than I did a few years ago, but if you elevate him to the ranks of the 'Great' composers then there would be others that perhaps people might judge need to be similarly elevated. There's no doubt about CPE Bach's important influence in the history of music but Johann Christian Bach was also highly influential on the generations that followed him and how about the other tri-centennial Rameau?

Personally I am delighted that so many so called 'lesser' composers are being rediscovered by the wider listeners and found to have been far better than we had been led to believe, I've tried to blow the trumpet for a number of these over the years, but to categorize any of them as 'Great' in the old fashioned sense, I think would be unwise. Great & Genius should be reserved for the genuine deserving few and perhaps some who have already been judged 'Great' might not perhaps be deserving of the very highest accolades.

[makropulos]

There was a BAL Thread on CPE a while back but it didn't draw much interest. Apparently this is the 300th Anniversary of his Birth and some of the Music Magazines have been featuring him (Grammophone and Fanfare in particular). The writers in these magazines assert that his reputation has improved over the last few decades or so and that he now comfortably resides in Valhalla with the First String Great Composers, fully the equal of his father, LvB, Chopin, Brahms, etc.
I have been listening to some of the CPE that I have accumulated over the years and also to some other works via Spotify. I think it's a mixed bag. A lot of the flute stuff that he turned out for Frederick over the decades is soporific. I understand he had to write down to the tastes of his Royal Employer but Mozart and Haydn had to do that and still turned out masterpieces. The Harpsichord Concertos may be CPE best music, as they are consistently inventive and have really poignant slow movements. The String Symphonies are being praised for their mood shifts and quirkiness, but when I listen the primary feeling is vertiginous nausea. The Magnificat strikes me as a Great Piece, but I haven't explored any other Vocal Music.
Thoughts?

I find him an incredibly interesting composer - fascinating - and that's enough to make me want to hear and perform his music. "Great" - as you and others have suggested - isn't necessarily the most helpful word to use (though there are well and truly "great" composers who can be just as uneven as CPE). Perhaps it's truly memorable ideas that I sometimes find missing, or at least in short supply. But, but but... I'm always really intrigued by him.

[amateur51]

I find him an incredibly interesting composer - fascinating - and that's enough to make me want to hear and perform his music [...] But, but but... I'm always really intrigued by him.

That'll do for me too

[richardfinegold]

I find him an incredibly interesting composer - fascinating - and that's enough to make me want to hear and perform his music. "Great" - as you and others have suggested - isn't necessarily the most helpful word to use (though there are well and truly "great" composers who can be just as uneven as CPE). Perhaps it's truly memorable ideas that I sometimes find missing, or at least in short supply. But, but but... I'm always really intrigued by him.

I guess he strikes us as very modern in his experimentalism. One could make the same comments that you made about Cage, or Babbit, or Stockhausen...Different, but not necessarily great.

[jayne lee wilson]

Somewhere on a CPE Bach EMS thread (6 July was it?) I put a list of my recent acquisitions of CDs this composer, who's become a major new passion for me. No time now, will try to come back on this...
Give another shameless plug to:

Barokkanerne: Empfindsamkeit! Symphonies and Concertos. LAWO CD. Rec.2012.

One of my discs of the year - two of the best symphonies, two of the most moving and melodically inspired concertos, including that serene summer smile opening of the Oboe Concerto WQ. 165..., soundtrack of my summer (not quite gone, but...) - yet it has a deeply tragic slow movement.

I adore this composer without worrying about his status or place in history...

Later that night....
I spent a lot of time sampling, buying & listening to several sets of WQ.182. BIG differences in sound and shape! If you have Pinnock you won't need further persuasion of their merits, but later performers have added some warmth, timbral subtlety and richness of sound and expression.
I always come back to:
Symphonies wq. 182 1-6 Kammerorchester Stuttgart/Wolfram Christ, Hanssler 2014.

AS I wrote in July, "from the moment it goes on, you just know it's special; not just the usp of the fortepiano continuo, uniquely warm and full, singing out so fulfillingly as it does - but for the agility, fluidity and beauty of the strings themselves, led (on modern instruments) by Wolfram Christ, 20-years the lead violist of the Berliner Philharmoniker..."

The largely forgotten Cafe Zimmerman CPE anthology on Alpha (2005), which has 4 of the WQ.182 set and two delectable concertos (cello & harpsichord) is marvellous too - possibly my favourites of all the WQ. 182 performances.
Bit churlish not to mention Hartmut Haenchen, CPE Bach-doyen of them all, but that's another story...