Magnard, Albérich (1865 - 1914)

[EdgeleyRob]

Thank you Jayne,more than just 'of some use' I'd say.

Like the world and his wife I downloaded the ultra cheap Plasson set.
I've never heard any of this music before and have just listened to Symphonies 1 & 4.
Some marvellous music here for sure and yet I was left feeling a little underwhelmed,perhaps it's just me,or I need to give them more time.

Having listened to 2 & 3 this morning I know it's just me and they are going to take time.
I've filed them under 'great music that doesn't click with me' along with Sibelius,Nielsen and Wagner.

[Gweefry]

Do you have a preferred symphony set?

Best wishes,
Paul.

Thank you for your welcome. The different sets are, I think, complementary and well summed up by JLW in the earlier postings. Plasson has the all the benefits (and drawbacks!) of a French orchestra. Ossonce has a passion and intensity, Sanderling an expansiveness which particularly benefits the later symphonies. Ansermet is, I think, truly thrilling in the 3rd - the overall effect is, to my ears, glorious.

#EdgeleyRob: I find your comments about "great music that doesn't click with me" fascinating. Given that the three composers you mention are, along with Magnard, great favourites of mine, what do they have in common which gives you a blank spot and me enjoyment? Is it style, nationality, period...?

[EdgeleyRob]

Thank you for your welcome. The different sets are, I think, complementary and well summed up by JLW in the earlier postings. Plasson has the all the benefits (and drawbacks!) of a French orchestra. Ossonce has a passion and intensity, Sanderling an expansiveness which particularly benefits the later symphonies. Ansermet is, I think, truly thrilling in the 3rd - the overall effect is, to my ears, glorious.

#EdgeleyRob: I find your comments about "great music that doesn't click with me" fascinating. Given that the three composers you mention are, along with Magnard, great favourites of mine, what do they have in common which gives you a blank spot and me enjoyment? Is it style, nationality, period...?

Hi Gweefry and welcome.

I have been trying with Sibelius and Nielsen for years,I know it's great music but it leaves me shrugging my shoulders.
I've had the Bohm Wagner Ring cycle for years,only ever dipped in,just seems too vast.
The simple answer is I have no idea why I don't get these composers but I haven't given up on them.

[Alain Maréchal]

May I draw attention to eclassical.com which today only offers downlaods of the Sanderling recordings of symphonies 3 & 4 at half price? flac available.

http://www.eclassical.com/conductors/sanderling-thomas/magnard-symphonies-no2-no4.html

[amateur51]

May I draw attention to eclassical.com which today only offers downlaods of the Sanderling recordings of symphonies 3 & 4 at half price? flac available.

http://www.eclassical.com/conductors...s-no2-no4.html

Top spotting, Alain

[HighlandDougie]

Alain

Many thanks for the tip-off. Duly purchased. Much looking forward to getting to know Magnard's symphonies - the LP of the Ansermet 3rd disappeared somewhere a long time ago

[jayne lee wilson]

I was surprised at my own disappointment with the Ansermet stereo 3rd (on the Eloquence reissue), given his stated devotion to the piece. Yes, it can seem physically exciting, but he misses a deal of expressive nuance and subtlety. Very po-faced in the scherzo "danses", but he does give us a lovely pastorale (I wish I knew the name of the eloquent principal oboe!). His live mono 3rd on RSR Cacavelle is more exciting still, but broadly the same reading with the same timings.

Comparing Plasson (14'06) to Ansermet (12'24) in the first movement you notice immediately how much more sensitive Plasson is to those expressive nuances - of pace, phrase and paragraph, how much warmer his strings, the colour and character of the wind contributions. Then in the finale, he starts with an almost Haydnesque lightness of touch. More than any other conductor, Plasson is always alert to Magnard's playful moods.

Sanderling gives us a magnificent, epic 4th, he triumphs with his more abstract approach here - but I would caution slightly against "learning" the 2nd from his reading alone, as he seems to miss the sunnier, pastoral mood of the first movement completely - plays it charmlessly, far too straight. Plasson is the best in No.2 as a whole, with lighter textures, a more "Mediterranean" feel. But Ossonce, despite a slightly cool Ouverture, is also alive to its sound- and landscapes with a wonderfully evocative slow movement. I go back to hear that movement on its own, so sublimely inspired is the BBCSSO playing in the Caird Hall.

[verismissimo]

JLW - I suggest you ignore Thropplenoggin's absurd post . He seems to see offence where nobody else does .

I hadn't visited this thread, so had not taken in that Thropplenoggin was at it again...

[Roehre]

...
Comparing Plasson (14'06) to Ansermet (12'24) in the first movement you notice immediately how much more sensitive Plasson is to those expressive nuances - of pace, phrase and paragraph, how much warmer his strings, the colour and character of the wind contributions. Then in the finale, he starts with an almost Haydnesque lightness of touch. More than any other conductor, Plasson is always alert to Magnard's playful moods...

Ansermet's 3 was my first Magnard (on a Decca LP)
This description of JLW's: I couldn't have written myself any better

[Barbirollians]

29p very well spent . I have enjoyed these Plasson performances a great deal .

[Barbirollians]

These have not paled for me although I doubt I shall feel the need to buy a duplicate set. The Fourth is perhaps my favourite .

[Barbirollians]

These works have now got utterly under my skin . This £2.99 Plasson bargain is enough for me I suspect re alternative recordings and I am very happy with them. No 2 is probably just shading it for me now .

[Roslynmuse]

I thought I'd resurrect this thread having at long last got round to listening to the Plasson CD box that I bought in an HMV sale a good few years back. (Does anyone else find that their CD purchasing is far in excess of available listening time?) I've now listened to most of it twice and the first/second impressions are positive, although I don't think any of the pieces are neglected masterpieces. So far I've been most impressed by the slow movement of No 1 and most of No 3 (I find I also have two other recordings of No 3, both Ansermet conducting). They are a curious mixture, to my mind. The comparison with Bruckner that has been made (not here) is pretty tenuous, I think, and although there are echoes of Wagner, they are not as pronounced as in, say, Chausson (if there is an earlier French composer Magnard reminds me of most it is probably Chausson, although Lalo came to mind too - Ansermet coupled his studio Magnard 3 with the Lalo Scherzo - not a million miles apart, stylistically). The surprise has been the anticipation of Roussel - the often driving rhythms (although the orchestration is leaner than that of Roussel), and the sometimes angular, unpredictable melodic shapes. I was reminded of pieces like the Roussel Suite in F - and I'm sure I heard the head of the 'motto' of Roussel 3 in Magnard 2 - I wonder whether Roussel knew it? (They obviously knew each other at the Schola Cantorum.) Someone upthread commented that Magnard's material is in the final analysis unmemorable; I wouldn't go that far but I wonder whether he is sometimes deliberately obscure - no, that's not the right word; somehow he twists his melodies out of shape (and seems to delight in changing time signatures - or the effect of time signatures - pretty frequently). The most memorable pieces (apart from the brooding opening of the 3rd Symphony) are the three short orchestral pieces also included - Hymne a la Victoire, Chant Funebre, and Ouverture (the latter with an unexpected anticipation of Nielsen 3's finale, and a bit of thrilling Straussian harmony). I find I also have a Timpani CD of these three pieces, plus two other orchestral works, plus a couple of discs of chamber music and piano music, and a set of Guercoeur. I've just found another Timpani set of the complete chamber music going 2nd hand at a ridiculously cheap price so have ordered that plus a disc of songs.

I also have a backlog of discs of d'Indy (Magnard's teacher) - the six Chandos CDs of orchestral music plus various other items - it will be interesting to compare and contrast. (I also picked up the complete works of Lekeu very cheaply too.)

I always used to wonder why so much French music that grew out of the Franck influence is rarely heard, but I have come to the conclusion that although much of it is interesting, effective and well-written, there is rarely the listener 'hook' that made the Franck Symphony (for example) popular. When Tortelier was conductor of the BBC Phil he programmed the Chausson and Dukas Symphonies, and made a good case for them; I'm not sure he could have done the same for Lalo's Symphony, and I suspect that Magnard's Symphonies (like Roussel's, recently discussed on another thread) are perfect for repeated home listening but less satisfactory in the concert hall.

Anyway, this is a journey I'm enjoying. (I see that Magnard's opera Berenice is on YouTube, by the way.)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Spurred by this Thread eighteen months or so ago, like Barbi, I bought the Plasson downloads, and devoted a lot of listening time to the Symphonies throughout last year. Again like Barbi, they got completely under my skin - but it certainly wasn't Love at First Listen, and I think you're right to suggest that these works are not as popular as (I feel) they could be because there is no obvious melodic/thematic "hook" that instantly grabs the casual listener (such as I would have counted myself on the first couple of hearings) - they need repeated hearings for their full riches to become fully apparent. And, as you also suggest, for many (if not "most") people, there isn't the blessing of having enough time to be able to devote to such repeated and concentrated listening.

I think that they are "neglected masterpieces", but not "inexplicably" so - and I wish they appeared in concerts (or, at least, broadcasts) so that at least some people might get intrigued and search them out for themselves. I disagree about the "better for home listening" suggestion, though - I would love to feel those sonorities in a concert hall. For me, too, they "last" longer than the Franck, which I have to "ration" carefully - it seems about once every five years or so - to keep up the charm (similarly with the d'Indy Mountain Song Symphony). The Magnards, once they started giving, just didn't stop!

They are lovely, moving and powerful works - and the Plasson downloads of the four Symphonies and shorter orchestral pieces are still only £2.49 from Amazon - which I whole-heartedly recommend. The scores are also available from ISMLP as free downloads.

(This year, I'm making a similar project of the Roussel Symphonies, which I don't know nearly as well as I ought. A similar experience with the Song of the Forest - initial "yeah - that's alright, 'spose: nice bits of glitter; doesn't really cohere" transformed with repeated hearings into "Oh, this is wonderful!" I could get all Radio3ly gushing about it!)

Many thanks for regenerating this Thread, Roslymuse.

[Pulcinella]

Similarly spurred, I bought the Hyperion dyad set (BBCSSO/Ossonce), and have given them an occasional spin.
Sounds like they might deserve a more serious listen!

I have the Erato Ultima 2CD set of the Roussel symphonies (ONF/Dutoit) and the Boulez recording of number 3 in the big Sony box; they too get an occasional spin.