Takemitsu, Toru (1930 - 96)

[Beef Oven!]

I am afraid the pieces I've heard or extensively listened to -nearly all the ones mentioned before- haven't left a lasting impression other than feeling like having eaten a lot of sweets and not a substantial meal.
Beautifully written music, but IMO without much body.
Most of it I think is quite suitable for the relaxation, easy-listening & muzak-brigade.
But, to be honest, I could live with that.
That's something I never could say re Einaudi's music (or much of Jenkins', for that matter)

Including 'Seasons'?

Interestingly, I really struggle with Einaudi. I'm very ambivalent. I get the 'lots of sweets' experience.

You've prompted me to play 'Stanze' and 4 minutes in, I'm really enjoying it!

[Roehre]

Including 'Seasons'?

Interestingly, I really struggle with Einaudi. I'm very ambivalent. I get the 'lots of sweets' experience.

You've prompted me to play 'Stanze' and 4 minutes in, I'm really enjoying it!

I am not saying that I don't enjoy Takemitsu's music, it only doesn't really leaves me with a lasting impression.
I certainly wouldn't switch it off, were I to switch on R3 in the middle of one of his pieces.

[Serial_Apologist]

I am not saying that I don't enjoy Takemitsu's music, it only doesn't really leaves me with a lasting impression.
I certainly wouldn't switch it off, were I to switch on R3 in the middle of one of his pieces.

For me much of the output is harmonically predictable - not what I would expect from the earlier music, nor from an admirer of Cage.

[doversoul1]

I think Takemitsu achieved something unique in his early works like November Step in that he managed to create a sound world that could evoke essence of non-Western spirit within purely Western musical terms. But again, if the listener were not aware of the composer’s cultural background, how much of this would be communicated may be questionable.

He was certainly revered as a cultural figure of the highest status in Japan but this may be due to the fact that he had been accepted as a ‘real thing’ by the (real) world of Western classical music. In the early 70s, his books of essays were published by a fashionably intellectual publishing house and sold well. In record shops however, his records were not exactly prominent.

I wonder how much of his music would have been heard over here without the fact that he was Japanese, and without those fantastically evocative/ambiguous titles. Even the music for Ran, would it be so memorable without the amazing images of the film? Somehow, he reminds me of Mompou whose music I quite like but not the music I choose to listen with serious attention for very long.

[Richard Barrett]

I wonder how much of his music would have been heard over here

Well, he did have an amazingly sensitive way with timbre and orchestration, and often I'm happy enough to listen to his music just on that level, especially the later pieces, each one seeming to contain some exquisite detail that I'd never heard the like of before. So I think that his most striking compositions bear comparison with the work of any of his contemporaries.

But apart from that, there are and have been very many fascinating composers in all parts of the world whose music is rarely if ever heard "over here" - having one's work performed in the UK is by no means a mark of excellence!

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, he did have an amazingly sensitive way with timbre and orchestration, and often I'm happy enough to listen to his music just on that level, especially the later pieces, each one seeming to contain some exquisite detail that I'd never heard the like of before. So I think that his most striking compositions bear comparison with the work of any of his contemporaries.

But apart from that, there are and have been very many fascinating composers in all parts of the world whose music is rarely if ever heard "over here" - having one's work performed in the UK is by no means a mark of excellence!

And quite a few are Japanese!

[Master Jacques]

This is just to bump Takemitsu up, really, as I noticed the thread from 2013.

He happens to be one of my "special" composers; and I am especially keen (unlike most other admirers on this thread) on his later, less rigorous works. He is a musician who seems to me to have an awful lot creatively in common with Delius, in so far as it is the journey which matters so much more than the destination - which is true of Delius's chamber works in particular and several of the major orchestral works too. And it is true of everything by Takemitsu after those early (impressive but to my mind less personal) pieces which first made his reputation in the West.

If I were advising people how to listen to Takemitsu, I would say "listen vertically, not horizontally", i.e. take each moment as it comes, listening to the combination of sounds, timbres and harmonies in the moment, rather than looking for the music to develop or "progress" in the usual Western manner. He uses Western means to an Eastern end, and appreciating his works is rather like contemplating a formal, Zen temple garden: we are looking on from the outside rather than trying to participate.

And if I were advising people on good starting points, I would suggest his radiant, aphoristic To the Sea (in any of its three versions), or anything on Oliver Knussen's classic pair of CDs - the unusually dynamic, muscular Quotation of Dream for example, which brings La Mer back to its roots in the woodcuts of Hiroshige. The Emily Dickinson-inspired chamber work And then I knew 'twas wind (despite the unintentionally funny title!) would also be a great starting place, not least on a successful Naxos issue (New Music Concerts Ensemble) which also features one of the versions of To the Sea.

For me, the more I listen to Takemitsu's music, the more it has to offer. I can't imagine life now without space for this music.

[Serial_Apologist]

This is just to bump Takemitsu up, really, as I noticed the thread from 2013.

He happens to be one of my "special" composers; and I am especially keen (unlike most other admirers on this thread) on his later, less rigorous works. He is a musician who seems to me to have an awful lot creatively in common with Delius, in so far as it is the journey which matters so much more than the destination - which is true of Delius's chamber works in particular and several of the major orchestral works too. And it is true of everything by Takemitsu after those early (impressive but to my mind less personal) pieces which first made his reputation in the West.

If I were advising people how to listen to Takemitsu, I would say "listen vertically, not horizontally", i.e. take each moment as it comes, listening to the combination of sounds, timbres and harmonies in the moment, rather than looking for the music to develop or "progress" in the usual Western manner. He uses Western means to an Eastern end, and appreciating his works is rather like contemplating a formal, Zen temple garden: we are looking on from the outside rather than trying to participate.

And if I were advising people on good starting points, I would suggest his radiant, aphoristic To the Sea (in any of its three versions), or anything on Oliver Knussen's classic pair of CDs - the unusually dynamic, muscular Quotation of Dream for example, which brings La Mer back to its roots in the woodcuts of Hiroshige. The Emily Dickinson-inspired chamber work And then I knew 'twas wind (despite the unintentionally funny title!) would also be a great starting place, not least on a successful Naxos issue (New Music Concerts Ensemble) which also features one of the versions of To the Sea.

For me, the more I listen to Takemitsu's music, the more it has to offer. I can't imagine life now without space for this music.

While I do love Takemitsu's music, in contrast what most fascinates and inspires me is composers whose music does advance, progress, acquire more rather than less individuality in the course of its evolution, without conscious intention on the part of the composer, because it is in this way, for me, that he or she is expressing their time most authentically. Which is possibly the main reason why I tend to like Takemitsu's early work (say up to about 1974) the most.

[Master Jacques]

While I do love Takemitsu's music, in contrast what most fascinates and inspires me is composers whose music does advance, progress, acquire more rather than less individuality in the course of its evolution, without conscious intention on the part of the composer, because it is in this way, for me, that he or she is expressing their time most authentically. Which is possibly the main reason why I tend to like Takemitsu's early work (say up to about 1974) the most.

I certainly see where you're coming from. The question of "authenticity" is perhaps key. I don't think Takemitsu was capable of writing anything that wasn't "authentic" in the sense I think you're describing. What happens in his later work, is that the sense of mastery somehow transcends any such concerns - he's no longer striving to write personally or individually, but is "simply being". The sense of progress in such a beautifully-wrought early work as Requiem simply disappears, because he doesn't need to prove anything any more.

So for me, it's this specially im-personal, contemplative aspect of his later work which appeals so greatly. Which isn't to say that the earlier works lack spirituality either, though I think they do lack the humour which marks his later phases, and can sound stiff or earnest. Then again, it's such a pleasure to be able to forget about musical development (in any of its normal, Western senses) and relax into simply listening - and enjoying the experience deeply, in a way which few composers allow.

I think Delius was getting there, too, but achieves it less completely. But then he had other concerns, of course.