Shostakovich: which one is your favourite amongst his works?

[ahinton]

May I ask you to withdraw the insulting "silly" and replace it with "extreme", Barbirollians?

Silly implies foolish or thoughtless, and my reaction, extreme as it was, was based on critically listening to the work (finding it wanting), reading around the subject, consulting other evidence (e,g. from Bartok), and reading a library score. I have admitted my reactions are 25 years out-of-date, but they were not unconsidered. Do we not all accept that there is a rainbow of works that came from DSCH's pen from the frankly popular and sometimes crass pieces written, if not by order from above, at least with the idea of tempering the displeasure of the authorities [ do try listening to The Fall of Berlin, 1949] to many masterpieces? I found the Leningrad to be popularist, poster-paint stuff, an occasional piece (think of Beethoven's Wellington's Siege & Victory; no don't the Leningrad isn't THAT facile) crude in construction, lacking intellectual challenge, and containing too little complexity to engage my "silly" mind.


Poor silly me!

There's nothing "silly" about expressing an opinion or about that opinion being contrary to those of others, especially if, as in your case, it is considered. I find Shostakovich's Seventh Symphony uneven and possibly overlong for what it has to say but, like all of its composer's major works, it contains some truly wonderful and moving passages. To me, the work as a whole simply doesn't stand up to its immediate symphonic predecessor or successor but it is anything but "crass".

[ahinton]

First Team:

Symphony #4 ******
Symphony #15 ****
24 Preludes & Fugues For Piano ****
String Quartets 3, 8 & 15 *****

On The Bench:

Piano Concerto #1 For Piano, String Orchestra & Crumpet (best played when hungry)
Symphony #5

How marvellous it is that Shostakovich's Fourth Symphony has come to top so many people's list of preferences, especially when after its première it seemed to top the composer's own and given how long it had to wait in the wings to elicit any listener responses at all! That DDS produced so fine a First Symphony by the age of 19 is in itself a remarkable achievement (and reflected as such in the sheer alacrity with which so many orchestras took it up so soon after its première), but to have penned the monumentally powerful Fourth just nine years later surely beggars belief!

[Tevot]

May I ask you to withdraw the insulting "silly" and replace it with "extreme", Barbirollians?

Do we not all accept that there is a rainbow of works that came from DSCH's pen from the frankly popular and sometimes crass pieces written, if not by order from above, at least with the idea of tempering the displeasure of the authorities [ do try listening to The Fall of Berlin, 1949] to many masterpieces?

Poor silly me!

Ed has a point here. I remember listening to "the assault on beautiful Gorky" which was the filler on an LP of the two piano concertos. Wasn't in the same league. And yes as a composer in the USSR he (Shostakovich) felt it necessary to atone for errors / deviations from the Party Line - e.g. withdrawing the 4th Symphony and Lady Macbeth...

His ripostes perhaps included arguably some of his finest works - e.g. Symphonies 5, 10 , 11. In response to hack work (Symphony 12?) he came up trumps with Symphony 13. As for the two Wartime symphonies - 7 and 8 - one is populist (No.7) and the other is more thorny (No.8)... Both surely are worth listening to on musical terms alone and in the hands of accomplished musicians both can be moving events. The same should be said of all of his works. Naturally with some of Shostakovich's work (Symphonies 2 and 3 for example and No 7) the political context is inescapable. The same can also be said of his later stuff which I love - whether he is toeing the line or kicking against it. The bottom line though is surely that in the main Shostakovich wrote good music that communicates with the open minded listener. Isn't this how and why he is remembered? From the heart to the heart??

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[edashtav]

{...] I find Shostakovich's Seventh Symphony uneven and possibly overlong for what it has to say but, like all of its composer's major works, it contains some truly wonderful and moving passages. To me, the work as a whole simply doesn't stand up to its immediate symphonic predecessor or successor but it is anything but "crass".

No , I wasn't suggesting the Leningrad was "crass", only that Shostakovich was capable of crass trash - which we v.v. rarely hear. I do think the Leningrad's a piece d'occasion, rather empty, and certainly protracted. Oh dear, my adjective count must be nearing 20, time to pipe down, I think.

[edashtav]

Ed has a point here. I remember listening to "the assault on beautiful Gorky" which was the filler on an LP of the two piano concertos. Wasn't in the same league. And yes as a composer in the USSR he (Shostakovich) felt it necessary to atone for errors / deviations from the Party Line - e.g. withdrawing the 4th Symphony and Lady Macbeth...

His ripostes perhaps included arguably some of his finest works - e.g. Symphonies 5, 10 , 11. In response to hack work (Symphony 12?) he came up trumps with Symphony 13. As for the two Wartime symphonies - 7 and 8 - one is populist (No.7) and the other is more thorny (No.8)... Both surely are worth listening to on musical terms alone and in the hands of accomplished musicians both can be moving events. The same should be said of all of his works. Naturally with some of Shostakovich's work (Symphonies 2 and 3 for example and No 7) the political context is inescapable. The same can also be said of his later stuff which I love - whether he is toeing the line or kicking against it. The bottom line though is surely that in the main Shostakovich wrote good music that communicates with the open minded listener. Isn't this how and why he is remembered? From the heart to the heart??

Best Wishes,

Tevot

Much better explained than my diatribe. I've seconded your thoughtful opinions, Tevot, by emboldening them. Cheers, ED

[Flay]

Time to stop bickering, it's spoiling a very good thread.

Perhaps we should have a separate gloves-off thread about what are considered to be his worst works?

[Roehre]

[QUOTE=Flay;336887....what are considered to be his worst works?[/QUOTE]

The Festival overture, perhaps, or the Ode to the Motherland, or the Song of the Forests?

[Tevot]

The Festival overture, perhaps?

A brilliant concert overture. Raises a smile as well as the curtain

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[edashtav]

A brilliant concert overture. Raises a smile as well as the curtain

Best Wishes,

Tevot

You're right,Tevot, it's trivial but "Such Fun".

For the pits, try "Raising the Banner" about 7 minutes into "Rule Britannia" (1931) to be found at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FH05Q4TmfQ

[BBMmk2]

The Festival overture, perhaps, or the Ode to the Motherland, or the Song of the Forests?

Strangely enough, Roehre, I rather like that. Even though, yes, I know it's a very weak work, but somehow, rather naively, enjoyable.

[Roehre]

Strangely enough, Roehre, I rather like that. Even though, yes, I know it's a very weak work, but somehow, rather naively, enjoyable.

I don't say it isn't fun, but it is a weak piece compared to what we know of the symphonies, concertos and many pieces from the film music even (only to mention the orchestral works).

[BBMmk2]

True enough, Roehre. Not a great work, far from it, but listenable on the odd occaision! :)

[amateur51]

I don't say it isn't fun, but it is a weak piece compared to what we know of the symphonies, concertos and many pieces from the film music even (only to mention the orchestral works).

I agree with you entirely Roehre - it is not a piece I need to listen to at home but it is a cracking opening to a live concert and a treat to watch, the twin poles on youtube being Svetlanov, who looks as tho' he's in the Olympic shot-putting team, and Pletnev who tries to 'do a Rozhdestvensky' and conduct with shrugs and eyebrows ... until the final moments when he cracks and goes bonkers

[Nick Armstrong]

Pletnev who tries to 'do a Rozhdestvensky' and conduct with shrugs and eyebrows ... until the final moments when he cracks and goes bonkers

Never seen that! Must look - unless a link were forthcoming...

I can say that as a trombonist, the 'Festive' is a killer to start a concert with, the rapid offbeat and ff (or louder) stuff almost all the time left me in need of first aid

[Hornspieler]

With composers of the 20th century, I tend to have favourite movements from their output, rather than favouring complete works.
DSCH and Prokofiev are typical examples.

Also, my choice of listening would be influenced by the sort of mood that I might be in at any given time.

It's rather like trying to answer those "Who is the best" threads that surface from time to time on these boards.

The same goes for all music. The answer depends upon the mood of the listener.

HS