Shostakovich: which one is your favourite amongst his works?

[ahinton]

Though it would be fair to say that Maximilian Steinberg had some positive input, in that he is said to have dismissed DDS's first thoughts of using the Scherzo Op. 7 as the second movement.

Sure but, as I am certain you would agree, that kind of advice to an immensely gifted teenage composer is a very different matter indeed to that of actually writing any or all of the symphony himself!

[Bryn]

Sure but, as I am certain you would agree, that kind of advice to an immensely gifted teenage composer is a very different matter indeed to that of actually writing any or all of the symphony himself!

Oh, absolutely. Simply a case of good stewardship by a diligent teacher.

[Petrushka]

Is it by chance that Haitink refused to play the 1st and 12th symphonies in public during the recording years of the Symphony cycle with LPO/RCO (btw beginning with LPO for symphony 10 and ending with RCO with again no.10)?

The 12th I can understand but has Haitink refused to perform No 1 but has publicly performed 2 & 3? I would find that most surprising. I wonder what was his reasoning for rejecting the 1st Symphony?

[Richard Barrett]

I wonder what was his reasoning for rejecting the 1st Symphony?

Maybe he was convinced it had been misattributed... but if that "fairy story" happens to be true I wonder why it it that the rest of Steinberg's output is mysteriously not on the same level of achievement?

[Petrushka]

Maybe he was convinced it had been misattributed... but if that "fairy story" happens to be true I wonder why it it that the rest of Steinberg's output is mysteriously not on the same level of achievement?

[Sydney Grew]

His first symphony was written by no one but himself; from what source did you derive the false impression that it was largely ghost-written? . . . do you really believe (and, if so, on what grounds), that the composer . . . evidenced . . . no sense of melody, harmony or seriousness of purpose? . . .

Well I will respond with further details as requested, but will thereafter pass this thread back to the enthusiasts. Look first at what Shteynberg himself wrote about the matter of the first symphony:



Shteynberg there was evidently an indignant man, both "very distressed" and fuming at the way he had been treated. Such indignation would not have arisen had it been a matter merely of the omission of a Scherzo, as some have suggested. The true facts would seem to be that the way Shteynberg's classes worked was that each youth would, on a given day, present his own unskilled attempt at a symphony. As those forum members who have been teachers will know, such attempts usually consist of a mere succession of childish ditties and mottos, thrown together with little rhyme, reason or connection. The whole class - perhaps five, ten, or twenty - would then discuss each work in great detail, and suggest a great variety of changes and improvements, under the ultimate guidance and arbitration of the mature and experienced Professor Shteynberg. All the raw edges and downright errors would in that way be removed, and the work would be knocked into some sort of acceptable shape. Collaborative criticism! But the result could hardly be said any longer to be the student's own original work. Changed to such an extent as to bear hardly any resemblance to what was originally presented.

Nevertheless in this particular case the shameless youth went ahead and claimed all the glory for himself, passing the work off as his own original production, and suppressing all reference to the class-room process. Hence Shteynberg's justified distress and indignation.

And of course all the later work consists of the above-mentioned childish ditties and clumsy combinations, without the benefit of any restraint or criticism.

============

In support of my second point - that this person was unable to "write a good melody," it should suffice if I simply cite the judgement of one of England's best-known music critics, who says precisely that.



============

And lastly in respect to the character of the man: his lack of ethics, and his not being a serious person worthy of our respect. We have seen the way he treated Shteynberg, his teacher. No acknowledgement, no thanks. And just three weeks ago, in the Times Literary Supplement dated the first of November 2013 (correspondence, page 6), we find quoted what he said about Picasso (and a couple of others):

"Don't speak to me of Picasso," Shostakovich interrupted, "he's a bastard and a coward. All those Hewlett Johnsons, Picassos, and Joliot Curies, they're all vermin. . . . And Picasso's revolting dove of peace! How I hate it!"

Well! We have from time to time seen disagreeable language of that kind used in this forum, even . . . and it has more than once led to the banning of members! All that I want to point out is that the vulgar character of the man is apparent not only in the words he chose but also in his musical language and his actions.

In our present era of sad decline, there are so many who are not themselves composers, who have learned little about the finer details of musical expression, and who consequently lack the art of discrimination and a knowledge of standards. It therefore comes as no surprise that the man's uninspired, incompetent and absurd things have been gaining more and more acceptance as "good music" among such persons. But assuredly they provide no pleasure to educated and refined men and women.

[Alison]

Can't help feeling that educated and refined men would not post a message such as this.

[BBMmk2]

Well I am a die hard Shosta fan. I think that his first Symphony is just a prelude of what was to come! The best symphony, in all the canon, is rather difficult to assess?

[Black Swan]

Well an easy answer for me. Unlike Brassbandmaestro, I am not a fan and own only 2 recordings of Shostakovich. I have never gotten the music and leave it to those who do.

[Richard Barrett]

I will respond with further details as requested

Really? What you originally said was:

the First Symphony, which was actually written by his teacher (most of it).

- which, unsurprisingly, you have been unable to substantiate, substituting instead a smokescreen in the form of the kind of irrelevant character attack you have affected to deplore on this and other forums. And that is supposedly the expression of an "educated and refined" mind. Please!

[ahinton]

Really? What you originally said was:

- which, unsurprisingly, you have been unable to substantiate, substituting instead a smokescreen in the form of the kind of irrelevant character attack you have affected to deplore on this and other forums. And that is supposedly the expression of an "educated and refined" mind. Please!

"Please" indeed! - just add the word "stop"...

(By "deplore" I think you mean "deploy", though given that SG's remarks are utterly deplorable I can well understand why you wrote as you did. Pedantry over).

What SG seems unable and/or unwilling to grasp is that the mere fact that Shostakovich happened to write his first symphony at a time when he was attending Steinberg's classes does NOT mean that he wrote the piece while in class; does he really believe that students spent their entire time in composition classes writing symphonies - still less having them written/rewritten for them? Shostakovich obviously wrote the work in his own time in his own home over almost two years and, whilst he may well have received Steinberg's guidance on it during that time, tht is not the same as having his teacher write all or most of it. Shostakovich had high moral standards, does SG really think that he'd nevertheless have wilfully passed off spomeone else's work as his won and then taken the credit for it following its rapid international success? And does he believe that Steinberg would have connived in such an act? I suppose that I have heard something as ridiculous as this but cannot now remember when or what it was...

[Ferretfancy]

Frankly, I'm a bit baffled by all this. The First Symphony seems to me to have all the Shostakovich fingerprints, pointing towards the later works. Many of the themes are very similar to those found in the film music which he started writing a little later on. It may have been a student work, but it's still to my mind a greater achievement than say, Prokofiev's First Piano Concerto written under similar circumstances.

[Petrushka]

The First Symphony seems to me to have all the Shostakovich fingerprints, pointing towards the later works.

Couldn't agree more. I've read some tosh on this forum (and its BBC predecessor) at times but message 171 takes first prize. All the hallmarks of a deliberate wind up.

[richardfinegold]

Frankly, I'm a bit baffled by all this. The First Symphony seems to me to have all the Shostakovich fingerprints, pointing towards the later works. Many of the themes are very similar to those found in the film music which he started writing a little later on. It may have been a student work, but it's still to my mind a greater achievement than say, Prokofiev's First Piano Concerto written under similar circumstances.

Exactly.
And regarding DSCH "Moral Standards": He worked as best he could under a terribly repressive system to save many people from destruction (most famously Weinberg), and in doing so frequently placed himself in a potentially dangerous path. The issue of his relationship to the Party is very complicated and has been the subject of much research and debate in it's own right, but to blithely say that he had no "moral standards" is insulting.
It is perfectly all right to not like his music, but to utterly defame him is another thing entirely.
As to whether or not he could write a good melody, there are so many counter examples in his music that it isn't worth taking the time to enumerate them.

[Roehre]

....The First Symphony .....pointing towards the later works. ....

and vice versa: String quartet op.110 quotes Symphony 1