Schumann, Robert (1810 - 1856)

[Roehre]

...
Bach, J S: Partita for solo violin No. 2 in D minor, BWV1004: Chaconne transcribed by Schumann (Quite fascinating)
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/H...undi/HMC902048

IIRC Schumann "only" added a piano accompaniment to this piece (and to all of the solo-violin sonatas and suites, btw).
Or have I missed something?
Brahms e.g. rewrote/arranged the Chaconne for piano-left-hand, but AFAIK Schumann stuck (partly) to the violin.

Whatever, the piece is fascinating anyway.

[cloughie]

Some years back Radio 3 broadcast a series of EIF concerts in which Sir Charles Mackerras directed the SCO in performances of the symphonies (both versions of the 4th) and concertos. fortunately I recorded the FM broadcasts to cassette and have since transferred them to CD-R. They remain my favourites, JEG et al notwithstanding.

I remember those Bryn - V good - got them on MD - must have a listen.

On CD two of my favourites are Solti in Sym 2 and Furtwangler in Sym 4.

[amateur51]

I remember those Bryn - V good - got them on MD - must have a listen.

On CD two of my favourites are Solti in Sym 2 and Furtwangler in Sym 4.

Ah Furtwängler in Schumann symphony no 4, yes please And a fairly recently discovery, Pablo Casals conducting the Malboro Festival Orchestra in No 2.

The cello concerto took some time to lodge into my mind but after listening to various versions it is the Fournier performance that has stuck.

I was introduced to the piano concerto by a very dear friend who died a few years back and I always associate him with it. The performance in question was by Arthur Rubinstein and it still sends shivvers up my spine. I've found that the several recordings by Walter Gieseking have a very natural 'conversational' quality in the interplay between the piano and the orchestra.

[Bryn]

As has been mentioned here previously by others, there is a very fine HIPP coupling of the piano and cello concertos on Harmonia Mundi:

[aeolium]

What views do people have about Schumann's late works, those composed in the last few years of his life? Are they adversely affected by his deteriorating mental condition, as some have suggested, or do they represent a new and different style? Charles Rosen has also suggested that Schumann's later revisions of early works in some cases toned down or muted some radical, unstable characteristics and that Schumann did this because of his lasting fear of insanity. Did this happen for instance in the 1851 revision of the 1841 D minor symphony (Brahms preferred the original version)?

[vinteuil]

... Schumann is one of the few - the very few - composers who sometimes used to have a real physical effect on me - and not in a good way. If there are some composers whose evident sanity billows through their work, and whose work in turn can have really beneficent psychological effects on the listener (for myself, I think of Bach, Vivaldi, Handel, Scarlatti, Haydn, Dvorak... ), then I think the instability of Schumann sometimes can spread out beyond his works. For quite a time, if I were feeling in any way queasy, Schumann was decidedly deleterious.

But there are now many works I have come to love; particularly the piano works and the chamber works. The quartets (Eroica and Zehetmair, marvellous), and of course the piano qtt and quintet, in particular. The orchestral works I have slowly come to enjoy, but I couldn't say they were in any way 'important' for me.

[Roehre]

What views do people have about Schumann's late works, those composed in the last few years of his life? Are they adversely affected by his deteriorating mental condition, as some have suggested, or do they represent a new and different style? Charles Rosen has also suggested that Schumann's later revisions of early works in some cases toned down or muted some radical, unstable characteristics and that Schumann did this because of his lasting fear of insanity. Did this happen for instance in the 1851 revision of the 1841 D minor symphony (Brahms preferred the original version)?

The revision of the Fourth Symphony is IMO a lesser succesful attempt of Schumann's to smooth out some of the edges of the original Symphonic Phantasy - and the orchestration is affected as well.

But in general I don't think Schumann's mental state affected his late(r) works. Even the Ghost-variations (his last work which we possess, based on a melody which went around and around in his head, and is related to the melody of the slow mvt of the violin concerto) hardly show such an influence. I wonder why Clara destroyed the 3 phantasy pieces for cello and piano, which were composed between the violin concerto and these variations.

Schumann's style became less edgy -if you like to call it that way (e.g. the Fantasy op.17, or the Concert-sans-orchestre/piano sonata no.3 opus 14)- but harmonically certainly more forward looking and melodically more sophisticated.
For an example of this: the 2nd mvt of the cello concerto, where only the strings are accompanying the soloist, is one of the more advanced pieces of Schumann's.

His exploration of the lower registers in the violin concerto as well as in the 2nd sonata op.121 (making these less appealing for soloists/public used to show pieces!) shows that his creativity was still high powered and hardly -if at all IMO- lost its inventiveness.

That is also evident in his creation of his ballades for solists, chorus and orchestra, of which genre he practically is the inventor: Des Sängers Fluch op.139, Vom Page und der Königstochter op.140, Das Glück von Edenhall op.143.

The lyricism of the Missa sacra op. 147 and especially the Requiem op.148 of which especially the latter foreshadows that of Fauré's.

Last but certainly not least: the Maria Stuart settings op.135 - magisterial songs, not by chance arranged/re-composed by Holloway.

Schumann's last works show that he was developing into a new style, qualitatively certainly not inferior to his earlier works.

[aeolium]

Interesting, Roehre. I must listen to some of these later works again.

This brief video-documentary about Schumann's last years includes performances of extracts from some of those last works including a chorale which was one of his last compositions.

[teamsaint]

Some interesting stuff on Roehre's list. (Welcome back of course !!!)

At the current rate of listening, its about two years down the list !!

anyway, today has been a choice nightmare...revisit some Schumann? A more critical listen to some dvorak? Catch up on some world music, or the Walton Viola before next saturday?
Time to stop faffing around on here I guess !!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I loved the symphonies from my first hearings

Karajan or Kubelik with the Berliners always take me back to those early thrills!

I'm fond of the Piano Quintet and of the story that (on either the first or second performance), Clara became ill and Mendelssohn sight-read the piano part.

I may be wrong, but as I understood it, Mendelssohn sight-read the part at the first (private, domestic) play-through of the work which was a birthday gift for Clara. This rather nonplussed Liszt, who was also present and who might have been expecting to be asked to play - he was critical of the work thereafter! Clara played the piano at the first public performance.

It is a superb work, and (afaIk) the first for the medium. There's an excellent BBCMusMag CD.

[gradus]

There are some wonderful recommendations already on the thread but could I add Bryn Terfel/ Malcolm Martineau's recording of the Eichhendorff Leiderkreis op39. Also the Dino Cianni set of the Novelettes, rare on record and really worth getting to know - some sublime Schumann.

[gradus]

Liederkreis.

[Pianorak]

Dino Ciani even.

[John Shelton]

The revision of the Fourth Symphony is IMO a lesser succesful attempt of Schumann's to smooth out some of the edges of the original Symphonic Phantasy - and the orchestration is affected as well.

But in general I don't think Schumann's mental state affected his late(r) works. Even the Ghost-variations (his last work which we possess, based on a melody which went around and around in his head, and is related to the melody of the slow mvt of the violin concerto) hardly show such an influence. I wonder why Clara destroyed the 3 phantasy pieces for cello and piano, which were composed between the violin concerto and these variations.

Schumann's style became less edgy -if you like to call it that way (e.g. the Fantasy op.17, or the Concert-sans-orchestre/piano sonata no.3 opus 14)- but harmonically certainly more forward looking and melodically more sophisticated.
For an example of this: the 2nd mvt of the cello concerto, where only the strings are accompanying the soloist, is one of the more advanced pieces of Schumann's.

His exploration of the lower registers in the violin concerto as well as in the 2nd sonata op.121 (making these less appealing for soloists/public used to show pieces!) shows that his creativity was still high powered and hardly -if at all IMO- lost its inventiveness.

That is also evident in his creation of his ballades for solists, chorus and orchestra, of which genre he practically is the inventor: Des Sängers Fluch op.139, Vom Page und der Königstochter op.140, Das Glück von Edenhall op.143.

The lyricism of the Missa sacra op. 147 and especially the Requiem op.148 of which especially the latter foreshadows that of Fauré's.

Last but certainly not least: the Maria Stuart settings op.135 - magisterial songs, not by chance arranged/re-composed by Holloway.

Schumann's last works show that he was developing into a new style, qualitatively certainly not inferior to his earlier works.

Absolutely in agreement. (Though I'm afraid I'd give Holloway a wide berth).

The composer, for me, who most engages with Schumann's later music is Heinz Holliger, and specifically with the destroyed 'cello / piano pieces.

Heinz Holliger & Clara Schumann - Romancendres http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/ECM/4763225

http://www.ecmrecords.com/Catalogue/New_Series/2000/2055.php?cat=&we_start=0

I'm sure Schumann's mental state affected his music - but then when doesn't someone's mental state (whatever it is) do that? In the 'late' works Schumann seems to aim for an unearthly and yet still quotidian calm.

A SLUMBER did my spirit seal;
I had no human fears:
She seem'd a thing that could not feel
The touch of earthly years.

No motion has she now, no force;
She neither hears nor sees;
Roll'd round in earth's diurnal course
With rocks, and stones, and trees.

[Nick Armstrong]

the Dino Ciani set of the Novelettes, rare on record and really worth getting to know - some sublime Schumann.

Yes I have those performances - they in the lovely Brilliant box along with his Debussy preludes

Further thanks to all for some great contributions to this thread, exactly the rich mix of suggestions and reactions I'd hoped for It's particularly good to read Roehre's input (and on other threads this weekend). It's been a while, and welcome back! Fascinating stuff.