Tippett, Michael Kemp (1905 - 98)

[Richard Barrett]

I listened to The Knot Garden yesterday, not paying as much attention to the libretto as perhaps I ought to have been, and once more found it musically fascinating from start to finish, full of sharply etched ideas in the manner of his 3rd Symphony and with a beautiful sense of dramatic pacing despite the somewhat oblique nature of the drama itself - for example following Flora's Schubert song with Dov's "play it cool" which for me is exactly the kind of emotional/stylistic disjuncture that Tippett's non-vocal music also thrives on. I do agree with my learned friend about the arch way in which some of the words are delivered by the cast of the recording. The whole thing seems more like a "chamber opera" even though it uses a full-sized orchestra - has anyone here heard Meirion Bowen's version for a reduced orchestra of 22 players? I'm not generally in favour of this kind of tampering with scores, but MB is about as close as you can get to Tippett's thinking without actually being him, and since most of the orchestration is rather soloistic anyway it might not make too much of a difference apart from bringing the orchestra onto the same kind of scale as the onstage activity.

Now for The Rose Lake (Tippett's homage to Messiaen!) - in the past I've found that this piece spreads itself a bit thin, the challenge now being to try and see that as a positive rather than negative feature.

[Pulcinella]

I listened to The Knot Garden yesterday, not paying as much attention to the libretto as perhaps I ought to have been, and once more found it musically fascinating from start to finish, full of sharply etched ideas in the manner of his 3rd Symphony and with a beautiful sense of dramatic pacing despite the somewhat oblique nature of the drama itself - for example following Flora's Schubert song with Dov's "play it cool" which for me is exactly the kind of emotional/stylistic disjuncture that Tippett's non-vocal music also thrives on. I do agree with my learned friend about the arch way in which some of the words are delivered by the cast of the recording. The whole thing seems more like a "chamber opera" even though it uses a full-sized orchestra - has anyone here heard Meirion Bowen's version for a reduced orchestra of 22 players? I'm not generally in favour of this kind of tampering with scores, but MB is about as close as you can get to Tippett's thinking without actually being him, and since most of the orchestration is rather soloistic anyway it might not make too much of a difference apart from bringing the orchestra onto the same kind of scale as the onstage activity.

Now for The Rose Lake (Tippett's homage to Messiaen!) - in the past I've found that this piece spreads itself a bit thin, the challenge now being to try and see that as a positive rather than negative feature.

I have a dim recollection of going to a Royal Academy student production of The Knot Garden in London, and wonder if it used the reduced orchestration.
Diaries chucked out in the move to York, so I couldn't say now when it was.

[jayne lee wilson]

I listened to The Knot Garden yesterday, not paying as much attention to the libretto as perhaps I ought to have been, and once more found it musically fascinating from start to finish, full of sharply etched ideas in the manner of his 3rd Symphony and with a beautiful sense of dramatic pacing despite the somewhat oblique nature of the drama itself - for example following Flora's Schubert song with Dov's "play it cool" which for me is exactly the kind of emotional/stylistic disjuncture that Tippett's non-vocal music also thrives on. I do agree with my learned friend about the arch way in which some of the words are delivered by the cast of the recording. The whole thing seems more like a "chamber opera" even though it uses a full-sized orchestra - has anyone here heard Meirion Bowen's version for a reduced orchestra of 22 players? I'm not generally in favour of this kind of tampering with scores, but MB is about as close as you can get to Tippett's thinking without actually being him, and since most of the orchestration is rather soloistic anyway it might not make too much of a difference apart from bringing the orchestra onto the same kind of scale as the onstage activity.

Now for The Rose Lake (Tippett's homage to Messiaen!) - in the past I've found that this piece spreads itself a bit thin, the challenge now being to try and see that as a positive rather than negative feature.

What about The Vision of St.Augustine? Surely the most intense, uncompromising masterpiece he ever created....? Not my "favourite Tippett" but - respect!

[Richard Barrett]

What about The Vision of St.Augustine? Surely the most intense, uncompromising masterpiece he ever created....?

Yes, the fact that it's only been recorded once (if I'm not mistaken), in a performance where everyone seems to be hanging on by the skin of their teeth, is a great shame.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, the fact that it's only been recorded once (if I'm not mistaken), in a performance where everyone seems to be hanging on by the skin of their teeth, is a great shame.

There's also a recording of a concert performance conducted by David Atherton, and given as part of the Tippett at 80 Festival:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tippett-Vision-Augustine-Concerto-Violin/dp/B000025H2E/

... and somewhere there's a BBC archive recording with DF-D as the soloist, and the composer conducting. But the work is certainly due a new recording - it would fit very well in Hyperion's ongoing Tippett discography.

[Richard Barrett]

Today I've listened to both recordings of The Rose Lake. In the symphonies and some other works I've always felt that Colin Davis' pioneering recordings were comprehensively superseded by the great advances in detail and depth achieved in the Hickox series, but in the case of this piece I have the impression that Davis expresses the composer's vision much more accurately.

[Bryn]

I have a dim recollection of going to a Royal Academy student production of The Knot Garden in London, and wonder if it used the reduced orchestration.
Diaries chucked out in the move to York, so I couldn't say now when it was.

There was a semi-staged concert performance conducted by Andrew Davis at the Barbican in 2005. This used the original orchestration and was broadcast on Radio 3. This evening I tracked down the DAB mp2 of it I saved on my Pure Bug. Here's a review of the performance.

[BBMmk2]

Today I've listened to both recordings of The Rose Lake. In the symphonies and some other works I've always felt that Colin Davis' pioneering recordings were comprehensively superseded by the great advances in detail and depth achieved in the Hickox series, but in the case of this piece I have the impression that Davis expresses the composer's vision much more accurately.

I’ll have to play these recordings later today.

[Beef Oven!]

Today I've listened to both recordings of The Rose Lake. In the symphonies and some other works I've always felt that Colin Davis' pioneering recordings were comprehensively superseded by the great advances in detail and depth achieved in the Hickox series, but in the case of this piece I have the impression that Davis expresses the composer's vision much more accurately.

I've just listened to the first movement of symphony #2 on my trusted, faithful old Decca CDs and also the Hickox on a stream from iTunes. I must say it's very tempting to add the Hickox (I already have #4 and perhaps another Hickox CD somewhere). The Davis is so much leaner (athletic?), direct and urgent. But with the Hickox it feels that there is more 'going on'.

[Richard Barrett]

with the Hickox it feels that there is more 'going on'.

That's because there is! I have the impression that Colin Davis somewhat downplayed the more unorthodox aspects of Tippett's orchestration (and Berlioz's too while I'm at it) and swept some of the details under the carpet, so to speak, in the interest of getting a "leaner" sound as you put it. I'm looking forward to hearing what Martyn Brabbins makes of these works, being more familiar with modern music than either Davis or Hickox.

[Pulcinella]

Don't overlook Tippett's own recordings of his symphonies 2 and 4; originally a BBC MM CD, now on NMC:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7934301--tippett-symphonines-nos-2-4

[Richard Barrett]

Don't overlook Tippett's own recordings of his symphonies 2 and 4; originally a BBC MM CD, now on NMC

Yes I must get around to listening to those. I have an idea stuck in my head that he wasn't such a good conductor, but I'm not at all sure how it got there.

[Pulcinella]

Yes I must get around to listening to those. I have an idea stuck in my head that he wasn't such a good conductor, but I'm not at all sure how it got there.

I rather like this recording too, originally Virgin, of Tippett himself conducting three of his works at the ripe old age of 82, though parts of it are very slow.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tippett-Concerto-Orchestra-Fantasia-Concertante/dp/B0007L7MWG/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1542057415&sr=1-1&keywords=Tippett+dov

There's a very detailed review.

[Richard Barrett]

Thanks for that Pulcinella - I'm not so interested in the earlier works, but the prospect of a Songs for Dov without Robert Tear is in itself enticing.

[Boilk]

I have a terribly snowstormy cassette recording of Solti 's UK premiere of Symphony No.4 (Proms 1977?) - it was decidedly less athletic than his fine Decca recording.