Sibelius, Jean (1865-1957)

[hackneyvi]

I mentioned this earlier Hacneyvi!! It is a wonderful recording!

I don't know how I missed your post, Bbm.

Like many another piece and performance, I came to the Sibelius concerto through hearing an excerpt of Heifetz/CSO sometime in the early 1980s on "Desert Island Discs". The LP had Bruch's Scottish Fantasy on side 1, conducted by Malcolm Sargeant. That LP's definitely one of my DIDs.

[RobertLeDiable]

Another great vintage recording of the Violin Concerto is of course the tragically short-lived Ginette Neveu's - extraordinary intensity. Ida Haendel with Bournemouth/Berglund is great, and the Humoresques as played by her on that disc are lovely. I wouldn't thank you for Colin Davis's LSO symphonies (and in any case can't stand the way they record that orchestra in the Barbican). I would go for Naxos/Sakari/Iceland SO if a cheap version was wanted.

[Anna]

I found recently, after I had started this discussion, that I in fact have a copy (via a friend but filed away wrongly with a Prok) of 4th, 5th and Tapiola by Karajan and Berlin Phil. Now, as regards the 5th what puzzles me are the two versions mentioned, so Sibelius did a rewrite, it happens, but is it so radically different, in other words, do I need one, the other, or both? I add that I am loving the 5th, and wondering why I haven't bothered with Jean before!

[Roehre]

I found recently, after I had started this discussion, that I in fact have a copy (via a friend but filed away wrongly with a Prok) of 4th, 5th and Tapiola by Karajan and Berlin Phil. Now, as regards the 5th what puzzles me are the two versions mentioned, so Sibelius did a rewrite, it happens, but is it so radically different, in other words, do I need one, the other, or both? I add that I am loving the 5th, and wondering why I haven't bothered with Jean before!

Yes Anna, the first version is very different from the final version and IMO one should have them both.
To give two examples: the very opening horn-melody is completely absent in the first version, and it has got a stand-alone scherzo. This first version is most certaonly a missing link between Symphony 4 and Symphony 5 as we generally know it.

[Anna]

Oh thanks Roehre, so it's the Vanska mentioned above that I should go for then? That is the only boxed set which includes both versions I think, there is not one (cheaper) disc which includes the two? (Excuse my brain picking here!)

[johnb]

I wouldn't thank you for Colin Davis's LSO symphonies (and in any case can't stand the way they record that orchestra in the Barbican).

I think everyone will have got the message by now - you dislike Colin Davis's Sibelius.

[Roehre]

Oh thanks Roehre, so it's the Vanska mentioned above that I should go for then? That is the only boxed set which includes both versions I think, there is not one (cheaper) disc which includes the two? (Excuse my brain picking here!)

The same first version of 5 is coupled to an older version of En Saga on another BIS-CD, making it possible to avoid getting 5 twice.

There also exists a BIS-CD with both versions of 5.

The opinions re Vanka's cycle are divided. either the complete set, or the 5i/En Saga coupling are the only ones enabling you avoiding to get 5ii more than once, as it is difficult, if not impossible to avoid 5ii otherwise.

[Norfolk Born]

I found recently, after I had started this discussion, that I in fact have a copy (via a friend but filed away wrongly with a Prok) of 4th, 5th and Tapiola by Karajan and Berlin Phil. Now, as regards the 5th what puzzles me are the two versions mentioned, so Sibelius did a rewrite, it happens, but is it so radically different, in other words, do I need one, the other, or both? I add that I am loving the 5th, and wondering why I haven't bothered with Jean before!

*Donald Tovey described the main theme in the finale of the 5th as 'Thor swinging his hammer'.
*There's a very fine 2nd with (I think) the BBCSSO under M. Brabbins Esquire on a CD issued with the BBC Music magazine some years ago. The coupling is the Walton 2nd.
*Karajan kept playing Sibelius when everybody else ignored him. I mentioned his 5th and Tapiola in an earlier posting - terrific recording and performance of both.
* There's a famous recording of the 2nd, made in the RFH I think, in which Sir Thomas Beecham decides to give the orchestra some vocal encouragement as they get to grips with the 'big tune'.

[amateur51]

I think everyone will have got the message by now - you dislike Colin Davis's Sibelius.

Cheers, johnb!

[bluestateprommer]

No one here is talking about the recent story about the purported fragments of Sibelius' Eighth Symphony?

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Is+this+the+sound+of+Sibeliuss+lost+Eighth+Symphony/1135269867060

One wonders if anyone would be allowed to elaborate on them in the manner of Elgar 3 and Anthony Payne.

[Chris Newman]

Originally Posted by RobertLeDiable
I wouldn't thank you for Colin Davis's LSO symphonies (and in any case can't stand the way they record that orchestra in the Barbican).

I think everyone will have got the message by now - you dislike Colin Davis's Sibelius.

Beat me to it, John and am21

[Norfolk Born]

I've just watched Sir Colin's 1992 'Kullervo' and was most impressed. (Having said that, it was slightly unnerving to see the new Justice Minister from 'The Killing II' in the chorus!)

[Roehre]

No one here is talking about the recent story about the purported fragments of Sibelius' Eighth Symphony?

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Is+this+the+sound+of+Sibeliuss+lost+Eighth+Symphony/1135269867060

One wonders if anyone would be allowed to elaborate on them in the manner of Elgar 3 and Anthony Payne.

Overlooked this one sibelius 8, bluestateprommer ?

[RobertLeDiable]

No one here is talking about the recent story about the purported fragments of Sibelius' Eighth Symphony?

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Is+this+the+sound+of+Sibeliuss+lost+Eighth+Symphony/1135269867060

One wonders if anyone would be allowed to elaborate on them in the manner of Elgar 3 and Anthony Payne.

I think that's probably very unlikely, bluestateprommer. I believe the Sibelius Estate was extremely reluctant even to allow the original versions of Sibelius 5 and the Violin Concerto to be recorded, and I think I'm right in saying that they don't allow live performances of those versions. Just one recording was allowed (Vanska conducting) as a kind of documentary record. Bearing that in mind, you can't imagine them letting someone make something new out of the 8th Symphony sketches in the manner of the Elgar/Payne.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oh thanks Roehre, so it's the Vanska mentioned above that I should go for then? That is the only boxed set which includes both versions I think, there is not one (cheaper) disc which includes the two? (Excuse my brain picking here!)

If you don't mind MP3 downloads, Anna, you might do a lot worse than this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sibelius-Complete-Symphonies-Lemmink%A4inen_Concerto/dp/B004Z4O440/ref=pd_ys_qtk_general_recs_85

... all the symphonies (including the two "Fifths" that JoeG and Roehre mention) and the Violin Concerto and other goodies in excellent performances. Yes, some listeners don't "take" to Vanska just as others don't like Davis and/or Berglund. Similarly, others are equally vocal in their praise for these conductors.

One of my favourite composers, I envy you "discovering" Sibelius: hope you have many happy hours listening!

Best Wishes.