Stephen Sondheim (1930 - 2021)

[kernelbogey]

Stephen Sondheim, American composer and lyricist, has died.

The American composer and lyricist, who has died aged 91, shaped the musical artform with his wise, witty and extravagantly clever work

[kernelbogey]

Posted earlier today on another thread by BSP:

Perhaps tacky to use this thread, given the title, for the NYT obituary for Stephen Sondheim, after the shock of seeing the news from earlier today:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/26/theater/stephen-sondheim-dead.html

PS: The Guardian has a very fine obit as well:

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/20...l-theatre-icon

[Belgrove]

One of the greats of musical theatre. As a song-writer, the equal of Schubert.

[RichardB]

I have great respect for Sondheim even though I have no appreciation for musical theatre in general. I was struck, reading a couple of obituaries including the Guardian one, of the lack of mention of his extensive private studies of composition with Milton Babbitt (who was a great enthusiast for musicals). I wonder why that is.

[cloughie]

Possibly like others on the forum Sondheim’s name came into my consciousness as the lyricist of West Side Story - as a teenager the film left a firm impression but maybe only later did I appreciate how good those lyrics are. Musicals are not high on my listening list so I probably do not fully appreciate the extent of his work but Sondheim has written some very good songs in a long career and Judy Collins singing ‘Send in the Clowns’ showcases this. RIP SS.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I think ,taken in the round, Sondheim was the greatest musical writer of them all. Rodgers and Gershwin were better tunesmiths, maybe Hart the greater lyricist. But as a combined lyricist and composer he had few equivalents and no equals. He benefited from excellent book writers like James Lapine and orchestrators like Jonathan Tunick but in his endlessly inventive and witty lyrics, eclectic and finely honed musical style , and mastery of the theatre he has no one to match him.
Over the years I saw Follies , Into The Woods , Company, Sweeney Todd, Sunday In the Park with George , West Side Story and Merrliy We Roll Along in their various London productions . If I had to single one out it would be the Menier Chocolate Factory production of Merrily. On Broadway an almost complete flop (Sondheim had a few of those ) - in the unlikely setting of a tiny theatre in Southwark it emerged as a masterwork.
There will never be another like him .

Ps the thread has his birth year as 1952 . If only - we’d then have another 22 years of wonderful musicals !

[kernelbogey]

Ps the thread has his birth year as 1952 . If only - we’d then have another 22 years of wonderful musicals !

Thanks for spotting my error, EH! I blearily misread Wiki when checking his dates. Now corrected.

[kernelbogey]

I have a prejudice against musicals which I can't explain. (Note to self: phone therapist.) I'm not anti-American - I have two adult chidren with dual British/American citizenship, their mother being American - but the singing style of musicals frequently grates. EA played out Breakfast today (I was giving her another chance ) with a Sondheim number: Ethel Merman singing Some People from Gypsy. I had to turn it down while waiting for Record Review. I find that shouty, semi-spoken, semi-sung style almost unbearable.

Therefore... Sondheim has been virtually unknown to me, although I had absorbed the fact that he is highly regarded.

There's so much music I have yet to discover that I know I will like (most Schubert songs, all Shostakovich string quartets, several Verid operas....) that I'm not likely to spend time rectifying my ignorance of Sondheim.

So much music, so little time....

[french frank]

Thank you, kernel, for articulating my own (semi-guilty) response

[Ein Heldenleben]

I have a prejudice against musicals which I can't explain. (Note to self: phone therapist.) I'm not anti-American - I have two adult chidren with dual British/American citizenship, their mother being American - but the singing style of musicals frequently grates. EA played out Breakfast today (I was giving her another chance ) with a Sondheim number: Ethel Merman singing Some People from Gypsy. I had to turn it down while waiting for Record Review. I find that shouty, semi-spoken, semi-sung style almost unbearable.

Therefore... Sondheim has been virtually unknown to me, although I had absorbed the fact that he is highly regarded.

There's so much music I have yet to discover that I know I will like (most Schubert songs, all Shostakovich string quartets, several Verid operas....) that I'm not likely to spend time rectifying my ignorance of Sondheim.

So much music, so little time....

Judging Sondheim and musicals by hearing Ethel Merman is rather like judging Bach by listening to Glenn Gould. It’s not going to be to everyone’s taste. Why not try the original cast album of Company which has some excellent singing in it ( and Elaine Stritch) or Sunday In the Park with Mandy Pantinkin and Bernadette Peters? The New York Phil love concert of Follies with George Hearn and Barbara Cook is also well sung.
PS the music for Gypsy was written by Jules Styne. Can’t think why they didn’t pick a thousand of tunes Sondheim did write.
Good lyrics though - some very clever internal rhyming.

[cloughie]

I think ,taken in the round, Sondheim was the greatest musical writer of them all. Rodgers and Gershwin were better tunesmiths, maybe Hart the greater lyricist. But as a combined lyricist and composer he had few equivalents and no equals. He benefited from excellent book writers like James Lapine and orchestrators like Jonathan Tunick but in his endlessly inventive and witty lyrics, eclectic and finely honed musical style , and mastery of the theatre he has no one to match him.
Over the years I saw Follies , Into The Woods , Company, Sweeney Todd, Sunday In the Park with George , West Side Story and Merrliy We Roll Along in their various London productions . If I had to single one out it would be the Menier Chocolate Factory production of Merrily. On Broadway an almost complete flop (Sondheim had a few of those ) - in the unlikely setting of a tiny theatre in Southwark it emerged as a masterwork.
There will never be another like him .

Ps the thread has his birth year as 1952 . If only - we’d then have another 22 years of wonderful musicals !

Maybe I’d give Cole Porter top spot but SS a good 2nd place!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Maybe I’d give Cole Porter top spot but SS a good 2nd place!

Cole Porter was listening to a song from Gypsy once ‘Together , Wherever We Go.’

He heard the first two lines

“Wherever I go, I know he goes
Wherever I go, I know she goes”

His ears pricked up as he knew “he goes “was a very difficult rhyme . Then came Line 3

“No fits, no fights, no feuds and no egos”

Porter realised Sondheim was a master . Then line 4

“Amigos, together!”

Porter then just sighed in admiration at Sondheim’s genius.

Mind you ‘Always True To You In My Fashion’ has some amazing rhymes as well…

[cloughie]

Cole Porter was listening to a song from Gypsy once ‘Together , Wherever We Go.’

He heard the first two lines

“Wherever I go, I know he goes
Wherever I go, I know she goes”

His ears pricked up as he knew “he goes “was a very difficult rhyme . Then came Line 3

“No fits, no fights, no feuds and no egos”

Porter realised Sondheim was a master . Then line 4

“Amigos, together!”

Porter then just sighed in admiration at Sondheim’s genius.

Mind you ‘Always True To You In My Fashion’ has some amazing rhymes as well…

They were both great lyricists and the humour comes through with both - Porter clearly recognised Sondheim’s skills - I guess Sondheim may have learned something from CP!

[Ein Heldenleben]

They were both great lyricists and the humour comes through with both - Porter clearly recognised Sondheim’s skills - I guess Sondheim may have learned something from CP!

They were a pretty small club weren’t they ? Hart , Ira Gershwin , Hammerstein , Porter , SS and a couple of others. Wasn’t Hammerstein Sondheim’s mentor for many years ? Funnily enough although everyone goes in about his lyrics for West Side Story Sondheim turned against them. A Puerto Rican girl just wouldn’t say ‘I feel pretty , witty and bright” he thought.

[cloughie]

They were a pretty small club weren’t they ? Hart , Ira Gershwin , Hammerstein , Porter , SS and a couple of others. Wasn’t Hammerstein Sondheim’s mentor for many years ? Funnily enough although everyone goes in about his lyrics for West Side Story Sondheim turned against them. A Puerto Rican girl just wouldn’t say ‘I feel pretty , witty and bright” he thought.

Sondheim may have turned against them but I would have thought those songs were a handy step on his career ladder.