Mozart's Masses

[Mario]

High time I got to know these I think.

I have the Brilliant Classics 170-CD Complete Mozart Edition. It lists 16 Masses!

I don’t know any of them that well, so I’m starting with the “Great” Mass in C min K 427, which I have on a BBC MM CD with the BBC SO & Ch & David Robertson, but which is NOT in the Brilliant box – why?

Any pointers or guidelines please?

Mario

[teamsaint]

High time I got to know these I think.

I have the Brilliant Classics 170-CD Complete Mozart Edition. It lists 16 Masses!

I don’t know any of them that well, so I’m starting with the “Great” Mass in C min K 427, which I have on a BBC MM CD with the BBC SO & Ch & David Robertson, but which is NOT in the Brilliant box – why?

Any pointers or guidelines please?

Mario

It is volume 7 CD # 8 in my 170 CD box.
Chamber Choir of Europe, Nicol Matt.
The recording is ok but not outstanding, IMO

[Mario]

It is volume 7 CD # 8 in my 170 CD box.
Chamber Choir of Europe, Nicol Matt.
The recording is ok but not outstanding, IMO

Hi ts, we’re playing you on the 28th Nov @ St Mary’s – wish us luck! And I mean that! My team really has become a joke now. Anyway…

Your reply has really confused me. In MY box, CD 7 & CD 8 are symphonies with Jaap Ter Linden. The Chamber Choir of Europe under Nicol Matt do do the other 16 Masses I mentioned earlier (I can list them if you wish), but no K427 is included.

Is your box a dark red colour (sorry don’t know how to upload photos)? Or maybe performances have been re-boxed?

Mario

[Mario]

Found it! In my box it's CD 104! It is indeed by Matt.

I agree re the recording. I'll compare with Robertson's.

Thanks ts,

Mario

[teamsaint]

Hi ts, we’re playing you on the 28th Nov @ St Mary’s – wish us luck! And I mean that! My team really has become a joke now. Anyway…

Your reply has really confused me. In MY box, CD 7 & CD 8 are symphonies with Jaap Ter Linden. The Chamber Choir of Europe under Nicol Matt do do the other 16 Masses I mentioned earlier (I can list them if you wish), but no K427 is included.

Is your box a dark red colour (sorry don’t know how to upload photos)? Or maybe performances have been re-boxed?

Mario

Yes, the dark red box

Volume 7, CD 8. Purple sleeve.

We’ll need the points more than you will.

Edit, glad you found it ! Perhaps they have been re numbered .

[Bryn]

Yes, the dark red box

Volume 7, CD 8. Purple sleeve.

We’ll need the points more than you will.

Edit, glad you found it ! Perhaps they have been re numbered .

It is not unknown for Brilliant Classic boxes to have the wrong discs in some sleeves, or two of one disc and none of another. I will check mine and get back.

In the 2014 greenish box, it's disc 104, as Auferstehen reported. In the later reddish box, it's Vol.7 Disc 8, as reported by teamsaint. I got lumbered with the later edition when I bought it cheap for a friend, only to find they had spotted the same deal and got it for themselves. There are a few variations in the particular recordings included in each, e.g. in the keyboard works.

[teamsaint]

It is not unknown for Brilliant Classic boxes to have the wrong discs in some sleeves, or two of one disc and none of another. I wil check mine and get back.

The only error that I know of in mine is that vol 4 cd 7 has the Vol 4 cd 8 violin sonatas duplicated, instead of the flute sonatas. KV 10-15

[french frank]

Found it! In my box it's CD 104! It is indeed by Matt.

I agree re the recording. I'll compare with Robertson's.

Thanks ts,

Mario

Was checking on my set - yes, CD104. It must be another box again as mine isn't red: it's sort of dull greeny colour with a criss-coss pattern. But glad you weren't sold short. To be honest, although Mozart is my No 1, I'm not so keen on the Masses. Relistened to K427 as there was a thread about it, but wasn't converted. That said, my taste is terrible - as with books, I tend to leave the "Great Masterpieces" and go for less celebrated works. I love the Masonic music - all of it, have now discovered the Church Sonatas and frequently play the violin sonatas.

[Mario]

Was checking on my set - yes, CD104. It must be another box again as mine isn't red: it's sort of dull greeny colour with a criss-coss pattern. But glad you weren't sold short. To be honest, although Mozart is my No 1, I'm not so keen on the Masses. Relistened to K427 as there was a thread about it, but wasn't converted. That said, my taste is terrible - as with books, I tend to leave the "Great Masterpieces" and go for less celebrated works. I love the Masonic music - all of it, have now discovered the Church Sonatas and frequently play the violin sonatas.

Oh no, just as I’ve diarised a few weeks to get to know these works. Well…, maybe a change of plan?

Freemasonry music? Such as Laut verkünde unsre Freude K 623? Well, that’s on CD 116. Let’s give that a spin.

Thanks for the pointer,

Mario

[french frank]

Oh no, just as I’ve diarised a few weeks to get to know these works. Well…, maybe a change of plan?

Freemasonry music? Such as Laut verkünde unsre Freude K 623? Well, that’s on CD 116. Let’s give that a spin.

Thanks for the pointer,

Mario

Mario, pleeeease don't change your listening plans on my say-so! Yes, Laut verkünde is one though there's a certain hearty manliness about some of the choral works which remind me of … no, one can say things like this which put people off for good. But you have to be in the mood to appreciate the context of Masonic brotherhood. I like the shorter works more, like the Maurerischer Trauermusik. Actually, I have a different recording, so haven't looked at the Brilliant box CD 114 - I now can't see Dir danken wir die Freude, which I really like . Really, carry on with your listening plan! Dip into the other stuff - it might be an acquired taste.

[jayne lee wilson]

High time I got to know these I think.

I have the Brilliant Classics 170-CD Complete Mozart Edition. It lists 16 Masses!

I don’t know any of them that well, so I’m starting with the “Great” Mass in C min K 427, which I have on a BBC MM CD with the BBC SO & Ch & David Robertson, but which is NOT in the Brilliant box – why?

Any pointers or guidelines please?

Mario

Beyond the obvious unfinished masterpieces K427 and K626, start with the Coronation Mass K317. A missa brevis, it is quite brief but incredibly catchy! Really uplifting piece.

[Mario]

Beyond the obvious unfinished masterpieces K427 and K626, start with the Coronation Mass K317. A missa brevis, it is quite brief but incredibly catchy! Really uplifting piece.

I'm really grateful for all of your input.

FF, the Masonic music I have is on CD116 (which includes the Maurerische Trauermusik K477 you mention), but you’re right – I shouldn’t discard Mozart’s Masses immediately.

Aided by JLW’s helpful post, I am listening to K317 (I didn’t even know K427 and K626 were unfinished), so shall have to google that.

Well… curiouser and curiouser! Wot, no violas? Weren’t they standard instruments in the classical orchestra of Haydn, Mozart and early Beethoven. Did Wolfie hate violas?

Mario

[french frank]

Did Wolfie hate violas?

If I remember correctly, he played the viola as well as the violin, and was said to have preferred it. No, I didn't realise that K427 was unfinished either K.626 famously so, as he died before he finished it.

[Just an aside, I played the bit of CD116 - and the 'air' I liked was sung - with what authority I know not - by a treble. On my recording it's sung by the admirable Werner Krenn, ane I was hoping Kurt Equiluz would be singing on the Brilliant disc. I didn't think young boys joined the Masons]

[jayne lee wilson]

I'm really grateful for all of your input.

FF, the Masonic music I have is on CD116 (which includes the Maurerische Trauermusik K477 you mention), but you’re right – I shouldn’t discard Mozart’s Masses immediately.

Aided by JLW’s helpful post, I am listening to K317 (I didn’t even know K427 and K626 were unfinished), so shall have to google that.

Well… curiouser and curiouser! Wot, no violas? Weren’t they standard instruments in the classical orchestra of Haydn, Mozart and early Beethoven. Did Wolfie hate violas?

Mario

Take a listen to K364....(I bet if you forced Mozartians, gun to the head, to name one favourite work, it would be this)..... not just the violin/viola soloists but his use of the orchestral violas too; then the gorgeous String Quintets where he uses two violas, very beautifully indeed.... I think you'll conclude that he adored them....

They'll tend to come through better on period instruments or smaller orchestras, of course....

[cloughie]

Take a listen to K364....(I bet if you forced Mozartians, gun to the head, to name one favourite work, it would be this)..... not just the violin/viola soloists but his use of the orchestral violas too; then the gorgeous String Quintets where he uses two violas, very beautifully indeed.... I think you'll conclude that he adored them....

They'll tend to come through better on period instruments or smaller orchestras, of course....

K364 - It’s certainly not the 626th on my list and would make my top 20 but there are so many WAM works to like and love.