Stravinsky, Igor Fyodorovich (1882-1971)

[Quarky]

.....Yes, thanks to this thread, I have begun checking out all of Stravinsky's works, and am finding there are a ton of works I'm not familiar with.

The Serial/ Craft period doesn't cause a problem, apart from the works in the main being very short. It's his neo-classical period, e.g. Apollon Musagète, that I was previously temperamentally unsuited to. Well, let's give it another go......

[Serial_Apologist]

.....Yes, thanks to this thread, I have begun checking out all of Stravinsky's works, and am finding there are a ton of works I'm not familiar with.

The Serial/ Craft period doesn't cause a problem, apart from the works in the main being very short. It's his neo-classical period, e.g. Apollon Musagète, that I was previously temperamentally unsuited to. Well, let's give it another go......

I feel and have always much the same about the Neo-classical period, through there are magificent exceptions in there: the Symphony of Psalms; Concerto for Two Pianos; Symphony in Three Movements; Orpheus; and the Mass. In most of the above the composer retrieved the Dyonisian energy and rhythmic excitement that had informed his music between composing The Firebird and the Cappriccio for string quartet of 1920, while, for me at any rate, the detached calm of Orpheus and the Mass transcends any notion of classicism, neo or otherwise, coming closest in spirit to late Satie (Socrate). I would also include what many Stravinsky enthusiasts regard as a "slight" work, the Ebony Concerto, for its anticipating the essence of Cool jazz, a good five years ahead of Miles Davis' and Gil Evans' Birth of the Cool, upon whose harmonic textures and instrumental combinations I detect its influence.

[Pulcinella]

.....Yes, thanks to this thread, I have begun checking out all of Stravinsky's works, and am finding there are a ton of works I'm not familiar with.

The Serial/ Craft period doesn't cause a problem, apart from the works in the main being very short. It's his neo-classical period, e.g. Apollon Musagète, that I was previously temperamentally unsuited to. Well, let's give it another go......

They are the ones I struggle with, but I'm hoping to come to better terms with them with the help of the book Joseph recommended (I've always liked Agon, though). I have several scores, which should aid my study during what might become my autumn project: Agon, Cantata, Canticum sacrum, Movements, Requiem canticles, Septet, Threni.

[Bryn]

I feel and have always much the same about the Neo-classical period, through there are magificent exceptions in there: the Symphony of Psalms; Concerto for Two Pianos; Symphony in Three Movements; Orpheus; and the Mass. In most of the above the composer retrieved the Dyonisian energy and rhythmic excitement that had informed his music between composing The Firebird and the Cappriccio for string quartet of 1920, while, for me at any rate, the detached calm of Orpheus and the Mass transcends any notion of classicism, neo or otherwise, coming closest in spirit to late Satie (Socrate). I would also include what many Stravinsky enthusiasts regard as a "slight" work, the Ebony Concerto, for its anticipating the essence of Cool jazz, a good five years ahead of Miles Davis' and Gil Evans' Birth of the Cool, upon whose harmonic textures and instrumental combinations I detect its influence.

I'm in the sad positon of not being able to think of any of Stravinsky's works I would care to 'dis'. Which might you have in mind?

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm in the sad positon of not being able to think of any of Stravinsky's works I would care to 'dis'. Which might you have in mind?

I wouldn't 'dis' any of his works - they, the neo-classical works, so-called, from the Octet to the Cantata on Old English Songs, are all pleasant enough, and well put together, with their wit, and that unfailing attention to details of orchestration and timbral combinations that are arguably their strongest characteristics, and have had longterm influence. With the exception of the abovementioneds, I have to say I find a lack of weight and depth to most of the music, qualities I find so manifest in the music up to 1920, and in that of composers influenced by it.

[Richard Barrett]

With the exception of the abovementioneds, I have to say I find a lack of weight and depth to most of the music, qualities I find so manifest in the music up to 1920, and in that of composers influenced by it.

One of my favourites from that period is the Symphony in C, which actually is as complex and convoluted as anything being written around that time, with an ending that's among the most strange and beautiful moments in Stravinsky's music. My current absorption with Stravinsky has only served to widen my experience to works I didn't previously didn't know very well, and to deepen my experience of those I did.

[Serial_Apologist]

One of my favourites from that period is the Symphony in C, which actually is as complex and convoluted as anything being written around that time, with an ending that's among the most strange and beautiful moments in Stravinsky's music. My current absorption with Stravinsky has only served to widen my experience to works I didn't previously didn't know very well, and to deepen my experience of those I did.

Yes I admit I do like the Symph in C more than I did when I first heard it, when I viewed it as a thin prequel to the Symph in 3 movements.

[Richard Barrett]

Yes I admit I do like the Symph in C more than I did when I first heard it, when I viewed it as a thin prequel to the Symph in 3 movements.

Ooh no no no, it's much more complex than the Symphony in 3 Movements! Of course he did write a few unimportant potboilers in his first few years in the US, but that wasn't one of them. And then there's The Rake's Progress which (by coincidence really) I've seen on stage more often than any other 20th century opera, and which I think is scandalously underrated.

[Belgrove]

And then there's The Rake's Progress .... which I think is scandalously underrated.

Not here! One of the finest operas of the twentieth century, and therefore any century (and what a libretto...)

[Bryn]

Ooh no no no, it's much more complex than the Symphony in 3 Movements! Of course he did write a few unimportant potboilers in his first few years in the US, but that wasn't one of them. And then there's The Rake's Progress which (by coincidence really) I've seen on stage more often than any other 20th century opera, and which I think is scandalously underrated.

Indeed, though it did give rise to one of Stravinsky's most blatantly misogynistic metaphors.

[Richard Barrett]

Indeed, though it did give rise to one of Stravinsky's most blatantly misogynistic metaphors.

Auden (who had form with misogyny) and Kallman rather than Stravinsky, surely.

[Bryn]

Auden (who had form with misogyny) and Kallman rather than Stravinsky, surely.

I was thinking of the defence regarding an accusation of re the Rake's Progress's relation to Mozart, of "rape is justified by the creation of a child", attributed to Stravinsky. Unfortunately, I have failed to find a reliable citation for the moment.

Ah, here you go, cited by Joan Peyser's "To Boulez and Beyond", page 98.

You can find it by searching for "rape "creation of a child" "rake's progress" Stravinsky". Just omit the outer quote marks.

[Richard Barrett]

I was thinking of the defence regarding an accusation of re the Rake's Progress's relation to Mozart, of "rape is justified by the creation of a child", attributed to Stravinsky. Unfortunately, I have failed to find a reliable citation for the moment.

I haven't come across that. I think if I'd seen it in the Walsh book I would remember - Walsh certainly doesn't skimp on references to Stravinsky's antisemitism and the awful way he treated his family.

[Bryn]

I haven't come across that. I think if I'd seen it in the Walsh book I would remember - Walsh certainly doesn't skimp on references to Stravinsky's antisemitism and the awful way he treated his family.

See revision of #42

I was introduced to the quote in my youth. I wonder if it is on EWW's "Stravinsky, the Composer and his works" which, the first edition of which I had as a requested birthday present from my father.

[Quarky]

I'm in the sad position of not being able to think of any of Stravinsky's works I would care to 'dis'. Which might you have in mind?

There may be an issue with some of his Ballet scores, the lesser known ballets. Obviously, the great ballets, Rite etc, are musical works that stand on their own feet as great works of art.

However Ballets are a joint production with the Choreographer, and particularly with modern productions, the production will stand or fall by the quality of the Choreography. I'm thinking of Balanchine and Agon for example - please don't open this clip if you don't like Dance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fZCdTFPiUs

The music of Agon obviously does stand alone, but I feel many of his ballet scores need to be seen as a ballet production for full enjoyment. ....And then there is Scenes de Ballet ......

Please excuse my waffling on...