Stravinsky, Igor Fyodorovich (1882-1971)

[Richard Barrett]

I looked for a Stravinsky thread and didn't find one so I hope I'm not duplicating anything here. As I've posted on other threads, I've been reading Stephen Walsh's biography, and I'm now approaching the end. While SW's insights into the music (necessarily not in very much detail) are pithy and valuable, it's somewhat obvious that he has little sympathy with the twelve-tone composition technique, but however that may be, his book expresses very well what a shock it was to many people when Stravinsky's music made this turn, and how Robert Craft was cast by some as a devilish influence in this regard. Craft is indeed a suspicious individual in some ways, it seems, but on the other hand it's hard to believe that a composer with as imaginative and original a mind as Stravinsky wasn't capable of making up his own mind about what stylistic direction to take, having already made so many turns over the previous decades.

Anyway, one of the results of reading this book has been to raise my appreciation of "late" Stravinsky - I mean from Canticum Sacrum onwards. Previously I didn't have much time at all for this music, which sounded somewhat grey and threadbare to me. No longer though, I'm pleased to say. But I think that this is partly the result of some excellent recent recordings, like Philippe Herreweghe's disc of Threni and Requiem Canticles, and MTT's live Canticum Sacrum from last year.

[Bryn]

I looked for a Stravinsky thread and didn't find one so I hope I'm not duplicating anything here. As I've posted on other threads, I've been reading Stephen Walsh's biography, and I'm now approaching the end. While SW's insights into the music (necessarily not in very much detail) are pithy and valuable, it's somewhat obvious that he has little sympathy with the twelve-tone composition technique, but however that may be, his book expresses very well what a shock it was to many people when Stravinsky's music made this turn, and how Robert Craft was cast by some as a devilish influence in this regard. Craft is indeed a suspicious individual in some ways, it seems, but on the other hand it's hard to believe that a composer with as imaginative and original a mind as Stravinsky wasn't capable of making up his own mind about what stylistic direction to take, having already made so many turns over the previous decades.

Anyway, one of the results of reading this book has been to raise my appreciation of "late" Stravinsky - I mean from Canticum Sacrum onwards. Previously I didn't have much time at all for this music, which sounded somewhat grey and threadbare to me. No longer though, I'm pleased to say. But I think that this is partly the result of some excellent recent recordings, like Philippe Herreweghe's disc of Threni and Requiem Canticles, and MTT's live Canticum Sacrum from last year.

Stravinsky was the great musical hero of my early years. When I first heard some of his later music on the Third Programme, I took to it like a duck to water. All things considered, I think Robert Craft had more of a positive than a negative impact on Stravinsky, certain character aspects notwithstanding. Gielen and Knussen were also very fine presenters of the music of his later years.

[Pulcinella]

Stravinsky was the great musical hero of my early years. When I first heard some of his later music on the Third Programme, I took to it like a duck to water. All things considered, I think Robert Craft had more of a positive than a negative impact on Stravinsky, certain character aspects notwithstanding. Gielen and Knussen were also very fine presenters of the music of his later years.

I think I've mentioned before that I got hooked during the sixth form at school, when, because our set works/period/topic covered Brahms S2 and development of the concerto, we spent an (otherwise) free period with the Head of Physics, who played us some C20 music, and we followed his scores, huddled up together (no social distancing in those days!). So I got to hear Berg's Lyric Suite, some Bartok, and of course some Stravinsky. I was lucky enough to get to a dress rehearsal (free) of the Symphony of Psalms (RLPO/Groves) in Philharmonic Hall, Liverpool, and have never looked back.

I haven't read Stephen Walsh's book but I have just dug out a study by Roman Vlad (second edition 1967, bought 26 October 1973, about the same time as I bought the score of Les noces, OUP: it cost £1!) which looks like it's worth reading again.

I see it went to a third edition, and it's available (used) very cheaply.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stravinsky-Roman-Vlad/dp/0193154447

[Richard Barrett]

Gielen and Knussen were also very fine presenters of the music of his later years.

Coincidentally I've just been listening to Knussen's recording of The Flood and other late pieces, and I agree (although I wish that CD hadn't included the nasty Wuorinen piece after all the Stravinsky).

[Bryn]

Coincidentally I've just been listening to Knussen's recording of The Flood and other late pieces, and I agree (although I wish that CD hadn't included the nasty Wuorinen piece after all the Stravinsky).

Yes, it would be easier to skip if it had been the first item.

There again, these days I tend to go for downloads where individual discs are concerned. However, this one I have in the DG Stravinsky 'Complete Edition', though originally I borrowed the single disc from the local library.

[Pulcinella]

Yes, it would be easier to skip if it had been the first item.

I can't help thinking we're in an episode of Private Passions when I hear Michael Berkeley narrating The Flood!

[cloughie]

Yes, it would be easier to skip if it had been the first item.

The insensitivity of record companies and the way they couple pieces never ceases to annoy me - why do they so often place an overture after a symphony. I was listening to Zinman’s Elgar 1 on Saturday last, and it ended beautifully then I had P&C March 1 blurting in - nah!

[Quarky]

Dumbarton Oaks sold me on Stravinsky when at Uni. - I think it was paired with Pierrot Lunaire on a long-lost LP.

Agon for me has always been an Iconic work (perhaps the true meaning of Iconic) although it took a little while to fully appreciate its serial nature.

[Bryn]

Dumbarton Oaks sold me on Stravinsky when at Uni. - I think it was paired with Pierrot Lunaire on a long-lost LP.

Agon for me has always been an Iconic work (perhaps the true meaning of Iconic) although it took a little while to fully appreciate its serial nature.

A Saga LP with Harry Newstone Conducting the Stravinsky. An excellent disc.

[Joseph K]

I've always been fond of his Requiem Canticles - it was the topic of a presentation of mine at uni. IIRC Stravinsky's use of serialism didn't wholly depart from his previous harmonic practices.

This might be of interest:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stravinskys-Cambridge-Studies-Theory-Analysis/dp/0521602882

[Pulcinella]

I've always been fond of his Requiem Canticles - it was the topic of a presentation of mine at uni. IIRC Stravinsky's use of serialism didn't wholly depart from his previous harmonic practices.

This might be of interest:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stravinskys.../dp/0521602882

I was contemplating a Summer BaL on Requiem Canticles, but there are only six available versions (still, that's quite a healthy number!); then Richard came along with his mention of Les noces.
I was reading recently about the last-minute arrangements for the performance at Stravinsky's funeral in Venice (it didn't go well). I have a distinct memory of seeing it on television, but can that have been true, and (if so) was it live?

Was it an oral or written presentation, Joseph?

[Richard Barrett]

I've always been fond of his Requiem Canticles - it was the topic of a presentation of mine at uni. IIRC Stravinsky's use of serialism didn't wholly depart from his previous harmonic practices.

This might be of interest

Yes indeed, thanks. I am settling on the Requiem Canticles as my current favourite among the late works, particularly the instrumental sections, and of those the last one, with the strange sound (stranger in Herreweghe's recording than Knussen's) of the celesta/tubular bells/vibraphone combination.

[Joseph K]

Was it an oral or written presentation, Joseph?

Oral, though I must have written it down somewhere... and prepared written music examples for people etc.

[Pulcinella]

Yes indeed, thanks. I am settling on the Requiem Canticles as my current favourite among the late works, particularly the instrumental sections, and of those the last one, with the strange sound (stranger in Herreweghe's recording than Knussen's) of the celesta/tubular bells/vibraphone combination.

I'm not surprised that that last orchestral section appeals, when you have in mind the final few bars of Les noces.

Oral, though I must have written it down somewhere... and prepared written music examples for people etc.

Do let us know if you ever find it!

[Joseph K]

Do let us know if you ever find it!

Probably just mumbled something about Rotational Arrays and that was it.