Birtwistle, Harrison (b. 1934)

[Serial_Apologist]

I sometimes struggle with those 'mannered' things. But I guess he had his reasons, and who can get in the mind of a composer, anyway?

I was there for that! - I remember worrying about the harpist on the right. I hadn't realised the Beeb televised it. You can't see me - I was up in the balcony but sat too far round on the right, fortunately!

[mallard fizz]

Birtwistle’s second piano concerto and Gawain’s Journey released by Neos a little while ago is finally reviewed in February's Gramophone. Not for the newbie they say. Not sure why. I have the recording. Not convinced by the pc yet, but this performance of Gawain’s Journey might just be preferable to Howarth’s, IMHO. (Took about 40 mins to read the whole mag tonight. Content has tanked, in my opinion).

[mallard fizz]

With the BRSO, it's hardly surprising, and Stefan Asbury is no mean conductor.

[Keith]

Listening to some music tonight, guided just by what I fancied at that moment, I followed Feldman's Cello & Orchestra with The Triumph of Time. This really caused me to hear the Birtwistle in a way that was new to me as something less monumental, less beholden to the European "greats" critics usually pair him with (Stravinsky, Messiaen et al) but as something that just goes its own way, moment by moment, much in the way the Feldman does. Of course, Birtwistle is much more obviously "thematic" with obvious hooks, but both work, of course, with forms of repetition in which nothing ever really returns in the same form. I think the two composers were friends (for a time) but has anyone looked at the affinities between their works in a bit more detail?

I'd imagine they both might write in a similar way, without too much forward planning, just going forwards. Birtwistle not a late modernist but as "experimentalist"?

[Bryn]

Listening to some music tonight, guided just by what I fancied at that moment, I followed Feldman's Cello & Orchestra with The Triumph of Time. This really caused me to hear the Birtwistle in a way that was new to me as something less monumental, less beholden to the European "greats" critics usually pair him with (Stravinsky, Messiaen et al) but as something that just goes its own way, moment by moment, much in the way the Feldman does. Of course, Birtwistle is much more obviously "thematic" with obvious hooks, but both work, of course, with forms of repetition in which nothing ever really returns in the same form. I think the two composers were friends (for a time) but has anyone looked at the affinities between their works in a bit more detail?

I'd imagine they both might write in a similar way, without too much forward planning, just going forwards. Birtwistle not a late modernist but as "experimentalist"?

Yes, Morty and Harry got on very well and played works for one and two pianos together. I do wish Radio 3 decision-makers would dig out their recordings of the two of them performing together. It was a wonder to behold, both aurally and visually.

[silvestrione]

Yes, Morty and Harry got on very well and played works for one and two pianos together. I do wish Radio 3 decision-makers would dig out their recordings of the two of them performing together. It was a wonder to behold, both aurally and visually.

Oh my goodness, I'd never heard of that before, and regard myself as a Birtwistle enthusiast and have always tried to keep up with what he was doing....When was this, Bryn, do you know? (I'd not even heard of him playing the piano, though 'Harrison's Clocks' is a fine set of pieces for the instrument IMV).

[Bryn]

Oh my goodness, I'd never heard of that before, and regard myself as a Birtwistle enthusiast and have always tried to keep up with what he was doing....When was this, Bryn, do you know? (I'd not even heard of him playing the piano, though 'Harrison's Clocks' is a fine set of pieces for the instrument IMV).

Their duo performance I attended was below Broadcasting House in the early '70s. Internet searches have not, so far, helped me to recall exactly when. The was a discussion regarding their friendship in the second programme of Birtwhistle's Composer of the Week series.

[Bert]

Oh my goodness, I'd never heard of that before, and regard myself as a Birtwistle enthusiast and have always tried to keep up with what he was doing....When was this, Bryn, do you know? (I'd not even heard of him playing the piano, though 'Harrison's Clocks' is a fine set of pieces for the instrument IMV).

I’m part way through reading "Harrison Birtwistle - Wild Tracks - A conversation diary with Fiona Maddocks”.

There are several references to MF. For example ….


“I’m always reminded of Morty [Feldman]. He was the first composer that I found I could talk to. Not so much in the music he wrote but in the way he thought about it. We were very close.”

“Morty and I talked a lot about music and one of his favourite words was ‘moves’. He used to say he liked my moves!”

[Bryn]

Their duo performance I attended was below Broadcasting House in the early '70s. Internet searches have not, so far, helped me to recall exactly when. The was a discussion regarding their friendship in the second programme of Birtwhistle's Composer of the Week series.

It would probably have been in early 1973, around the time of http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...509#post256509

[Just found this: https://www.cnvill.net/mffivepianos.htm . Gold dust!]

[silvestrione]

It would probably have been in early 1973, around the time of http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...509#post256509

[Just found this: https://www.cnvill.net/mffivepianos.htm . Gold dust!]

Ah, yes, that pre-dates my interest in Birtwistle, indeed I was in New Zealand!

[silvestrione]

I’m part way through reading "Harrison Birtwistle - Wild Tracks - A conversation diary with Fiona Maddocks”.

There are several references to MF. For example ….


“I’m always reminded of Morty [Feldman]. He was the first composer that I found I could talk to. Not so much in the music he wrote but in the way he thought about it. We were very close.”

“Morty and I talked a lot about music and one of his favourite words was ‘moves’. He used to say he liked my moves!”

Oh dear, I'm being shown up as a so-called Birtwistle enthusiast. I have three books on his music, but didn't know of that one. I've ordered a copy.

[silvestrione]

It would probably have been in early 1973, around the time of http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...509#post256509

[Just found this: https://www.cnvill.net/mffivepianos.htm . Gold dust!]

Many many thanks for digging that out! Listening to 'The Triumph of Time' immediately after 'Five Pianos' certainly confirms Keith's astute comments. I am happier with the Birtwistle, where (to my ear) there is so much more happening, but that's after only one listen to the Feldman of course.

[Bryn]

Many many thanks for digging that out! Listening to 'The Triumph of Time' immediately after 'Five Pianos' certainly confirms Keith's astute comments. I am happier with the Birtwistle, where (to my ear) there is so much more happening, but that's after only one listen to the Feldman of course.

There's a great story about an early performance of Five Pianos. Five luminary composer/pianists were involved, including Feldman, Cage and Rzewski. Cage finished some 20 minutes after the others.

[silvestrione]

There's a great story about an early performance of Five Pianos. Five luminary composer/pianists were involved, including Feldman, Cage and Rzewski. Cage finished some 20 minutes after the others.

[teamsaint]

Deep Time, from the 2017 Proms.
Not been recorded commercially I think.

Where is crowdfunding when you need it?

https://youtu.be/lnkEK1cAsvs