Mozart: For The Older Listener?

[Guest]

Years ago, when I was in my twenties, I remember talking to an (older) friend about my indifference to Mozart.

'How old are you?' asked older friend.

'Twenty five' was my honest reply.

'Ah, well', said older friend. 'You'll 'get it' when you're older'.

I'm now near enough a couple of decades older (though still younger than the sadly now departed older friend was at the time of our conversation) and I'm still waiting to 'get' Mozart. To be fair, I do enjoy the later piano concertos, a couple of the symphonies, bits of the operas (though don't think I could swallow a whole one) and some of the piano sonatas. But the vast majority of WMA's output, I'm happy to file under 'pleasant but inessential'.

How old do I have to be, I wonder, before I 'like' Mozart?

[Roehre]

But the vast majority of WMA's output, I'm happy to file under 'pleasant but inessential'.

As the vast majority of his output actually is, even Robbins Landon thought so (for those who like to check that quote: it is to be found in the introduction to the Decca essential Mozart 30 CD series from 1990/1991, for which HCRL made the selection)

The longer I listen to Mozart and Haydn, the more I become convinced that the latter is the (by far) more interesting composer of the two. The only exception I'd like to make is for the Mozart piano concertos (but NOT for the music of the operas: Haydn's music is brilliant, but Mozart's libretti are exceptional, making his operas in that respect better.)

[Freddie Campbell]

...Try the String Quartets,Clarinet Quintet,Violin & Horn Concertos, Exultate Jubilate...(Good Performances essential!)

[VodkaDilc]

Years ago, when I was in my twenties, I remember talking to an (older) friend about my indifference to Mozart.

'How old are you?' asked older friend.

'Twenty five' was my honest reply.

'Ah, well', said older friend. 'You'll 'get it' when you're older'.

I'm now near enough a couple of decades older (though still younger than the sadly now departed older friend was at the time of our conversation) and I'm still waiting to 'get' Mozart. To be fair, I do enjoy the later piano concertos, a couple of the symphonies, bits of the operas (though don't think I could swallow a whole one) and some of the piano sonatas. But the vast majority of WMA's output, I'm happy to file under 'pleasant but inessential'.

How old do I have to be, I wonder, before I 'like' Mozart?

And I thought it was just me! The Magic Flute's OK; and the odd Mass and Requiem, but as for the rest...............

[Ventilhorn]

And I thought it was just me! The Magic Flute's OK; and the odd Mass and Requiem, but as for the rest...............

Try listening to the B flat Serenade (Gran Partita) and the C minor serenade
Symphony Nº 29 in A
The horn and clarinet 5tets
5tet for piano and wind
The oboe quartet.

If I were told that I could only listen to the music of one composer for the rest of my life, it would be the music of Mozart.

Ironic, that I am the one who is constantly being told that I should "...open my ears."

Mozart's output embraces every aspect of musical composition (except bebop!)
Can you say that of any other composer (including Bach and Beethoven)?

VH

[salymap]

Morning VH and everyone. Mozart is deceptive. Because he is sometimes 'easy' to listen to, he is sometimes thought a touch shallow. It's all there, the more you listen to him, the more you marvel at his depth.

I could be happy with just Mozart too, however I would miss Dvorak, Sibelius, Smetana etc. a lot.

If I were told I could only hear one opera it would be Mozart's 'Figaro', that has layers of enjoyment too.
All life is there.

[french frank]

I suppose there's no obligation on anyone to like eveything.

When I was 15 I only had two classical LPs (a 10" of Richard Tauber singing the famous Mozart tenor arias, given me by my mother because I liked our record of Tauber singing 'Pedro the Fisherman'; and one of Mozart overtures which I bought myself, with Josef Krips, probably the Famous Mozart Overtures with the LSO). Mozart was my 'favourite composer'. I probably knew a total of no more than ten other classical works by then.

When I was about 27 I'd gone off Mozart i.e. my overtures LP, though I still quite liked the arias. A friend gave me an LP of the clarinet quintet and Kegelstatt Trio to show me how wrong I was, but I didn't like them; in fact they reinforced my dislike.

Now, Mandryka, I realise that I was not starting from the same position of musical knowledge as you now but my Damascene conversion probably came (age? dunno, perhaps '42' would be a good guess ) when I had Teach Yourself Classical Music on my knee and I was listening intently, with headphones, to Symphony No 40 to try to understand what 'sonata form' meant. I think that was when I 'got' Mozart.

Now, if I had to pick a single work, well, two perhaps, it would be the C minor Fantasia K475, and the D minor K397 .

Possibly a good way in for people who are much more musically knowledgeable than I was (and am)

[This just a clip because I enjoyed it, naturellement; and this - try Lili Kraus and Kempff too . Sorry, K475 is what Eine Alpensinfonie is to Eine Alpensinfonie!]

[salymap]

I tried to play the Fantasia K.475 and Sonata K.457 and every time I hear them I recall the 'pig's ear' I made of them at quarter speed. Harder than they sound but good choice FF.

[Suffolkcoastal]

I've done the opposite Mandryka, I used to love Mozart as a teenager, now I'm fairly indifferent to his music. I still like the Piano Concertos, a couple of the operas ,some of the symphonies, some of his chamber works, the C minor Mass and also enjoy playing (badly) the Piano Sonatas. I find my attention more drawn to F J Haydn and Mozart's contemporaries these days.

[Roehre]

....when I had Teach Yourself Classical Music on my knee and I was listening intently, with headphones, to Symphony No 40 to try to understand what 'sonata form' meant. I think that was when I 'got' Mozart.

FF, was this Teach yourself classical Music perhaps an issue of the Classic CD magazine (Summer 1992 IIRC), in which they explained sonata form using the symphony's 1st mvt?
That one was rather good indeed too.

[barber olly]

As a teenager in the 60s I listened and learned to love via LPs of Divertimento 17 K334 (Vienna Octet), Sym 35 Van Beinum, Sym 40/41 (Anthony Collins), then went on to listen to other music and maybe less Mozart. I think I really came back to him in 1991 when there was lots of it about and if asked for favourites would have high on the list P&W Quintet K452, Kegelstatt Trio K498 and still K334, but No39 is my top Symphony - always a joy to listen. I wonder who owns the car reg K626WAM.

[french frank]

FF, was this Teach yourself classical Music perhaps an issue of the Classic CD magazine (Summer 1992 IIRC), in which they explained sonata form using the symphony's 1st mvt?
That one was rather good indeed too.

It wasn't, no. My memory is that it was the old EUP series but I could be wrong. There were, I think, three works described, and the Mozart G minor was the only one of which I had an LP (the result of a short but hugely embarrassing - not to say humiliating - period as a second violinist in a village orchestra where we attempted to play it and my efforts were worse than most ).

[MrGongGong]

I have the same experience as Suffolkcoastal
When I was young I was very keen on Mozart , loved playing it and listening
however as I have got older there seem to be fewer pieces that I find interesting
i'm still nostalgic about the horn concertos mainly because i used to be able to play K495 which was a huge milestone

but theres much other music that i now find more interesting and fulfilling

[Chris Newman]

Mandryka's opening message sounds so familiar.In the early 70s I wrote a big headed article for "Consort" (the then Promenaders magazine) in which I largely dismissed Mozart. Fortunately I praised Tippett in the same article because at the Queen's Arms Colin Davis sought me out to thank me for "promoting" him and pretented that he would "duff me over" for what I said about Mozart. He was a young man of fortyish then so looking back on him regarding himself as old sounds funny yet he repeated the words expressed to Mandryka about how Mozart would grow on me. Some composers have become necessary (almost daily bread) for me: above all Haydn, but closely running come alphabetically Dvorak, Elgar, Janacek, Purcell, Schubert, and Tippett. Then I regularly need my Beethoven, Berlioz, Nielsen, Puccini, Sibelius, Wagner and, yes, Mozart has crept into that elite group. I think above all, performing Mozart has impressed me the most. It is his magical phrases and dissonances, the unpredicatability of where a melody will go. And sometimes he sounds, like Beethoven, so 20th century. In his best works he makes things sound so easy and then goes wild, off the rails, terrifies you as you think "what am I singing/playing?" and then IF HE FEELS LIKE IT resolves things. That is the beauty in the operas: your seemingly run-of-the- mill da capo aria will appear to cruise to its conclusion and a phrase or subtle key change will push the singer into drama. He often does this in instrumental pieces, movements of concerti and symphonies. Think of those symphonies that leave you feeling slightly frightened or "sea-sick".

[Pianorak]

I seem to 'get' Mozart in fits and starts. On another forum we had this argument:

A) . . . can you think of ANY genre where our Amadeus was NOT "really good at"? :

B) . . . piano sonatas. Compare the far, far finer works by Haydn and Clementi.

Pianorak) I have - and at one time I too thought Haydn's late piano sonatas were superior [to Mozart's]. Clementi too wrote some fine sonatas. However, while I still think Hadyn's late sonatas are great fun to both play and listen to, in the final analysis I think Mozart's sonatas have greater depth and musical worth. However, I may well change my mind again.