Verdi, Giuseppe Fortunino Francesco (1813 - 1901)

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  • ferneyhoughgeliebte
    Gone fishin'
    • Sep 2011
    • 30163

    Verdi, Giuseppe Fortunino Francesco (1813 - 1901)

    I've long had a problem with this Music. It's not at all that I dislike it - there are some rattling good tunes and beautiful melodies here, the orchestration is never less than skillful, and is often very impressive, and the ensembles build up very effectively - but I'm always perplexed when people (some of them writers on Music whose opinions on other matters I respect) describe it as "great" and evaluate it as on the same level as (for example) Wagner.

    So, in an attempt to discover what I was missing, I devoted much of this year to getting to know the works better, playing a different opera twice a week each month (so, twelve operas - Nabucco, MacBeth, Don Carlo, Rigoletto, Trovatore, Traviata, Simon Boccanegra, Ballo, Forza, Aida, Otello, Falstaff - each played eight times). I'd always adored Falstaff, and it was a real delight to confirm just how perfect this work is - rhythm, texture, pulse, harmony, orchestration, melody; all superbly handled. And the first act of Traviata I'd often used with sixth-formers to illustrate how Music can simultaneously express two conflicting states of mind - how the progress of the Music more than the libretto conveys the persons of the drama. Very glad to hear that hasn't changed.

    But for the rest ... I just don't get it. It's very good Music, most of it - but often two-dimensional and presenting cardboard cut-out characters in risible situations, and far too many rum-ti-tum "Gilbert & Verdivanisms". I can understand Otello and Aida (or "Nabucco 2") being considered alongside Tannhauser or Lohengrin, but I can't hear how they "rival" Tristan, Parsifal the "Ring" cycle, or Meistersinger (or, for that matter, Carmen, Boris or Les Troyens. I love Il Trovatore di Penzance as a hilarious, Pythonesque romp - but take it seriously?!

    I have tried very hard - and enjoyed getting to know the works much better than I did (and Zinka Milanov singing Leonora's aria in act of Trovatore alone would have made the year's effort worth it). But I still don't see why this body of work is held in such high esteem (not even Dallapiccola could help me - his commentaries tend to deal with generalities; contrast his piercing concentration on the Musical textures of Mozart - that was the sort of insightful commentary I was hoping for). I do not hear why Verdi is considered by so many commentators to be a greater composer of operas than, say, Massenet.

    For all the enjoyment I've got from the year, I can't deny that I'm rather glad that it's over, and I'm looking forward much more to my opera project for next year - post-Wagnerian German operas by Schrecker, Schmidt, and Korngold.

    I'm not intending to upset anyone's pre-New Year digestions by making these comments; I'm just hoping that there will be Forumistas who can point out what I've stupidly missed.
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
  • kernelbogey
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 5803

    #2
    I don't know enough about the history of opera to make a judgement, but I wonder if there is a gulf between how opera was received (consumed) in the Italy of Verdi's day and our veneration of it now. In other words, Il Trovatore being more of a popular romp than we (tend to) consider it now.

    Just two experiences I've had in Italy, of Tosca in Rome and Aida at the Baths of Caracalla (Rome) indicate a popular reception of opera that is far from reverential - nearer to a football match than attendance at high art.

    So I'm suggesting that we've inherited a view of Verdi's music that partially derives from his reputation in contemporary and modern Italy.

    Comment

    • Nick Armstrong
      Host
      • Nov 2010
      • 26572

      #3
      Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
      I've long had a problem with this Music. I just don't get it.
      Same here (though I haven't put in the work you have: in my case, it's 'life's too short' syndrome... ). Never mind, there's plenty of other stuff!
      "...the isle is full of noises,
      Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
      Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
      Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

      Comment

      • ferneyhoughgeliebte
        Gone fishin'
        • Sep 2011
        • 30163

        #4
        Originally posted by Caliban View Post
        'life's too short' syndrome...
        Yes - I think it was this that made me decide that if I didn't do the project pretty soon, I might end up never doing it, and somehow a life that had encompassed several dozen lunchtime playground duties when it was peeing down, but that hadn't given some attention to Simon Boccanegra was a bit skewered.

        I'm glad I've done it - but just as glad it's done.
        [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

        Comment

        • Beef Oven!
          Ex-member
          • Sep 2013
          • 18147

          #5
          Being a radio family in the 60s and mum being Italian, she would crank up the volume whenever opera, especially Italian opera came on. I knew all the words off-pat, to "La donna รจ mobile" even before I was old enough to go to school. I enjoyed Verdi right up to about 15 years ago, albeit in a superficial way. Now I don't care very much for his music ..........

          ................ except for Simon Boccanegra. Which is superb. And it has to be Claudio.

          Comment

          • Serial_Apologist
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 37813

            #6
            For Donnas not to have a mobile today would leave them very isolated.

            Comment

            • Richard Tarleton

              #7
              A quick count-up here reveals 16 different operas on the shelf, with a couple of Trovatores (the immortal Mehta and the Giulini, also with Domingo plus Rosalind Plowright), and Falstaffs (Toscanini, Giulini) - I love Verdi deeply, but there is a huge gap in my knowledge between, roughly - Ernani (Bergonzi-Price ) and Stiffelio/Aroldo (excepting Luisa Miller, which I have, one of Verdi's many explorations of the father-daughter relationship). So I don't know the galley-slave years very well at all. Vivid recollections of many great performances - one of the last revivals of the great Visconti Don Carlo, a Trovatore at ENO in the 1970s (shocking coup de theatre at the end), a WNO Boccanegra and a Ballo in its proper Swedish setting as intended...Otello with Vickers and Joan Carlyle....wouldn't be without him, although not in my 3 desert island operas (which are Meistersinger, Figaro and Rosenkavalier ) .

              Yes the Abbado Boccanegra is as close to perfection as it gets, closely followed by the Giulini Don Carlo.
              Last edited by Guest; 31-12-18, 17:58. Reason: PS

              Comment

              • gurnemanz
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 7405

                #8
                Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                For Donnas not to have a mobile today would leave them very isolated.
                I was once taught Italian numbers (and noun plurals for that matter) by singing that well-known tune to an alternative text:

                Un automobile
                Due automobili
                Tre automobili
                Quattro automobili
                Cinque automobili
                Sei automobili etc ...

                E un camioncin (and a lorry)
                Camioncin!
                Camioncin!
                E un camioncin

                Comment

                • gradus
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 5622

                  #9
                  I share some of the misgivings expressed in the OP but I had my mind changed about Forza by listening to a dissection of the opera on R3 some ears ago in the series of programmes that compared interpretations on record. Sometimes for me, music doesn't speak for itself and needs an articulate advocate to get the point across.

                  Comment

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