Schnittke, Alfred. 1934-1998

[Serial_Apologist]

I remember your comments about the later symphonies in an earlier discussion of Schnittke on this or the previous BBC forum, jayne, as was very much hoping/looking forward to your offerings to this one.

(Oh, and many thanks to the person concerned for correcting my thread heading).

[Tapiola]

Very much in agreement with Edash and Jayne here.

The late works especially, i return to more and more.

We can be a little sniffy about the polystylist Schnittke, i feel, especially in the complacent and fat-bottomed West, a West where writing what you like can be taken for granted without fear of anything save the words of impotent critics.

The late Schnittke is a distillate of an erstwhile technique both formidable (choose a style and he can write convincingly in it) and a paring back to essentials...an "even tension" between tones as he remarked.

Essentially, his music truly communicates to me, and that is all that matters.

Today i have been working, non chronologically, through the symphonies, including the 9th, in the Goldsmith archive live recording by Boreyko (my favourite). I hope to end with the Bosch Fragments.

The Schnittke Reader is an essential complement to his thinking and music.

[Richard Barrett]

We can be a little sniffy about the polystylist Schnittke, i feel, especially in the complacent and fat-bottomed West

What do you mean by that?

[jayne lee wilson]

Theres another SChnittke thread here...

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?19128-Schnittke-Alfred-(1934-1998)&highlight=schnittke

[Serial_Apologist]

Theres another SChnittke thread here...
http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...ight=schnittke

Would it be possible to amalgamate them?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Would it be possible to amalgamate them?

Easy-peasy. The other Thread is in the CotW section for the moment, so I'll leave that running for a couple of weeks, whilst the programmes are still available on the i-Player, just in case anyone wishes to comment on them. (I've been family-sitting since Wednesday, so need to catch up with the last three programmes myself.) Then I'll merge the two Threads.

[Serial_Apologist]

Many thanks ferney. Apologies for causing any confusion!

[Richard Barrett]

While waiting somewhat forlornly for the promised merging of Schnittke threads, as well as an answer to my question about what might be meant by people in the "complacent and fat-bottomed West" getting "sniffy" about AS's polystylism, I had the opportunity recently, here in the corrupt but callipygous East, to hear a performance of his Viola Concerto, with the solo part rather brilliantly played by Tatjana Masurenko, a name to watch out for I would say. The overall design of the concerto made even more of an impact on me than on previous (recorded) hearings - in particular the way each movement is longer than the previous one seemed to give rise to an increasing feeling of unease, an awareness not of the durations as such but of their deeper expressive purpose. Also, in this piece it seems to me clear that the use of "received" material serves the same expressive purpose, which isn't something I experience in very much of AS's music, I don't know if that sounds "sniffy".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Threads de-forlorned.

(I had completely forgotten all about this - apologies.)

[Tapiola]

what might be meant by people in the "complacent and fat-bottomed West" getting "sniffy" about AS's polystylism.

Please forgive the long time no response, but I'd have thought the second half of the sentence, historically speaking, might have qualified the first.

I spend half my current years between Ha Noi and UK. Thank you for reminding me of the lovely "callipgous" word - my partner is delighted!

No matter!

Schnittke: The Concerto for Harp and Orchestra is one I return to again and again.

The Cello Sonatas.

The Peer Gynt ballet. A much misunderstood play, laid bare by Schnittke's music. It reveals it for the mystifying and hugely disturbing work it is.

Symphony 8 is deeply unsettling. But 9 (despite its controversial provenance and supposed completion), for me, is just an addendum to the canon. But an integral addendum.

[Tapiola]

Please forgive the long time no response, but I'd have thought the second half of the sentence, historically speaking, might have qualified the first.

I spend half my current years between Ha Noi and UK. Thank you for reminding me of the lovely "callipgous" word - my partner is delighted!

No matter!

Schnittke: The Concerto for Harp and Orchestra is one I return to again and again.

The Cello Sonatas.

The Peer Gynt ballet. A much misunderstood play, laid bare by Schnittke's music. It reveals it for the mystifying and hugely disturbing work it is.

Symphony 8 is deeply unsettling. But 9 (despite its controversial provenance and supposed completion), for me, is just an addendum to the canon. But an integral addendum.

EDIT: Concerto for harp, OBOE and Strings of course.

[Richard Barrett]

Please forgive the long time no response, but I'd have thought the second half of the sentence, historically speaking, might have qualified the first

My reason for asking is that, as far as I can see, what might be called polystylism is very much in vogue in the well-upholstered West and has been for some time.

[Tapiola]

My reason for asking is that, as far as I can see, what might be called polystylism is very much in vogue in the well-upholstered West and has been for some time.

Richard, thank you for your response.

I must confess, your very witty initial reply, and your follow-up, ring resonantly here. I do agree that the polystylism thing does smack in a lot of ways as a product of its time. But a reaction, by definition, necessary and transitory, and in retrospect, something that Westerners like myself must assimilate. In my own experience, with my Vietnamese partner {Viet Nam still a Communist country}, I have learnt by embarrassment and error, what I have said which is not right and what I still have to work on. And my partner takes what I say with equanimity, generosity and understanding. I have a lot to learn. She does does not "get" anything about Schnittke whilst she gets Bach, Beethoven etc.

[Tapiola]

Sorry for the mix of grammatical sentences and ungrammatical thoughts. Hard to be separated from a partner so far away and in time zones incompatible. Harder still when there is no Schnittke connection!

:o)

[Richard Barrett]

When I said I was speaking from the East I meant the ex-communist European East, so pretty far to the west from your point of view, Tapiola!

Be that as it may: of course, "polystylism" is a term that could cover a multitude of musical phenomena. My feeling is that it's often deployed in a gratuitous kind of way (thinking particularly of people like John Zorn and very many younger composers). Even when it isn't, as in the very different musics of Schnittke, BA Zimmermann, Henri Pousseur and so on, I often find it difficult to cope with, since any irruption of more or less familiar or familiar-sounding material will have a tendency to submerge the unfamiliar material surrounding it. For example one might well remember Zimmermann's Monologe from its strange superimposition of Bach and Messiaen but not necessarily from the more "atonal" material in which it's embedded - it has a "sore thumb" effect not so far removed from parallel fifths in renaissance polyphony. I have this problem with a lot of Schnittke's music where the polystylism comes across (to me at least) as somehow the main point of the music; whereas in the two pieces I mentioned upthread, it seems more clearly to serve a particular expressive purpose, like the desperately extended modulations of a commonplace "Schusterfleck" of melody in the second movement of the viola concerto.