Simpson, Robert (1921-1997)

[Beef Oven!]

The most neglected, ignored British composer of stellar talent, ever?

I first heard Simpson's work, a symphony (can't remember which one) around 1989. I became a member of the Bob Simpson Society in 1990ish and never looked back.

Did he ever get a Proms airing? Are any of his works ever programmed at concerts? Do we ever hear him on the radio?

I've been lucky enough to have attended a couple performances of his symphonies in the early 90s, one by the Kensington Symphony Orchestra. I contacted them recently, but they have no record of the concert!

I listened to his string quartet #9 this evening. An astonishing work. 57 minutes of variations on a theme of Haydn, each of the 33 sections a wonderful variation, but all in the form of a palindrome! The man was a near-genius! I put this work in the same box as LvB's Hammerklavier.

Don't miss out, check out his symphonies and his string quartets, especially no.s 9, 3, 7, 6, 10, 11, 8, 12 and 7 (in any order )

(That's to say nothing of his amazing music for brass, trios, solo piano and quintets)

Hyperion have tons of his music available on downloads for very reasonable prices - don't miss out!!!

[Lat-Literal]

I have in the last two weeks been listening to Simpson and several others including Cooke, Rubbra and Rawsthorne as a consequence of the thread that you began a few years ago, for which many thanks. Much has been good. Clearly they occupy a halfway house between the pastoralism of RVW and the terrain way beyond. We could speak about elements of twelve tone in some instances on the margins or not. Whatever, inevitably on YT they begin with a Radio 3 style announcement of their age. I am in two minds. On the plus side, I am very open minded re the resurrecting of overlooked British composers. I am also open to the manner in which many were not obviously pastoral while often seeking to depict aspects of the countryside. I have attempted to grapple with and against a wish to enjoy to them. One word that often comes up with the nebuolus is "grit". This composer was "gritty" etc.

Maybe.

But I reckon that there are significant elements of the gothic there albeit via a sense of army. Perhaps Quatermass. Whether it ever achieves grain a la Birtwistle I doubt although it is closer to that than any twittering ascendant. I think they are fine but they are, if anything other than what has been mentioned in this post, the outposts of Walton who, gawd, was the sixties composer in an age where airplay of this stuff didn't matter one jot. He as the (dull) general of that age could only have been so by being it in name and rarely scrutinised.

Black and purple through the fearns to the bold windowless ediface - but not necessarily real huge.

And don't get me wrong - I really love maps - but these people do tend to be map makers rather than the guys who went out and built trig points in all weathers.

[seabright]

Beef Oven mentions the Robert Simpson Society, so I just called its website up, only to find that the last updates are dated February 2014. Not much enthusiasm for him there, apparently. The website's opening paragraph refers to his 9th Symphony as being a "masterpiece," so I checked the BBC Proms Archive to see how many times this "masterpiece" has been performed and the answer is none. Three of his symphonies (Nos 1, 3 and 5) have each had one performance, the last being in 1990. Anyone can label a work they particularly like as being a "masterpiece" but if their view isn't shared by conductors, orchestral managements and audiences, then it is unlikely to get very many performances. Indeed, how many performances altogether has the "masterpiece" 9th ever had anyway, and in addition, has it yet been given its Continental or US Premieres?

I haven't heard all the Simpson symphonies but of the ones I've heard, it's No. 3 that I particular like. My liking it doesn't make it a "masterpiece" but I certainly think it deserves an outing now and again. There are two "live" performances on You Tube, one from the Proms in 1967 under Sir Charles Groves (this has been released on CD by CRQ Editions) and the US Premiere in Oklahoma under Ainslee Cox in 1974. The American performance is very much speedier than Groves so probably won't appeal to everyone but even so, I think that as it's the only US performance of any of Simpson's symphonies, it has a certain importance.

Groves ... in 2 parts ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVJyxx7W5T4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEj4nkCto8s

Cox ... also in 2 parts ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRDGB7XwwLI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq_8_cNyCPo

Interesting to note that only the 1st movement of the Groves performance has had over 1,000 "views" on You Tube. The 2nd movement has just half that number. It seems that You Tubers weren't inspired enough to listen to the whole work. Actually, there's quite a lot of Robert Simpson on You Tube and that's probably the only place anyone is likely to hear him, since he seems seldom to be played on the radio or in the concert hall these days.

[makropulos]

The most neglected, ignored British composer of stellar talent, ever?

Chacun à son gout, of course, but since you ask the question, my answer would be "no", particularly when composers of the stature of Rubbra and Rawsthorne are similarly neglected. The complete cycle of Simpson's 11 symphonies on Hyperion certainly makes for intermittently interesting listening, and Simpson also did a great deal to promote Nielsen's music, for which I'm forever grateful, but "the most neglected, ignored British composer of stellar talent, ever?" - certainly not for me.

[Suffolkcoastal]

I'm strongly with Beefy here. Drawing direct inspiration from composers such as Haydn, Beethoven, Bruckner & Nielsen, welding this into a striking personal style unlike that of any other post-war composer. The most impressive aspect of Simpson's writing is his total command of form, both at the thematic and tonal levels, everything in a work is interconnected in some way or other, nothing is wasted. In his orchestration he largely dispenses with the enlarged percussion sections that tend to characterize a lot of post-war orchestral music. The orchestration he uses is there to present the argument and to keep it in focus throughout the work, something many contemporary composers could learn from.

One can argue that such concentration on structure can lead to a certain 'severity' of style that can make for very demanding listening especially in his Chamber Music, where total concentration is almost demanded. But this isn't this the case with many chamber works throughout musical history?

There is also humour a plenty, though this may not immediately be apparent, familiarity with the composer's music soon throws up moments of musical wit. Try both the Flute & Piano Concertos, (if you can find recordings of course!), with the former the wit is immediately apparent.

Personally I do think this 9th Symphony one of the greatest of all 20th century symphonies, to sustain an utterly convincing & gripping musical argument without break, in one tempo, for a full 50 minutes is an awe inspiring achievement.

Regarding Simpson's music on R3; 6 pieces/chunks in 9 years, nothing since 2014. Total number of complete symphonies broadcast since 2011 - 1 in 2013!

[Richard Barrett]

The orchestration he uses is there to present the argument and to keep it in focus throughout the work

I've never much liked the idea of a piece of music "presenting an argument", that's surely more the sort of thing barristers do. I find Simpson quite a sympathetic character, but when I listen to his music my attention begins to wander away from all that ponderous development churning beneath a dull and colourless surface, or at least that's how I hear it, I'm probably being repelled by the very features others find attractive...

[ahinton]

The most neglected, ignored British composer of stellar talent, ever?

I wouldn't go that far, but the persistent neglect of him other than in recordings is wholly inexcusable. For such an evaluation, he'd have to be put up against his near contemporary Malcolm Arnold and earlier ones born in the same century including Richard Arnell, John Gardner, Alans Rawsthorne and Bush and Rubbra as well as the better known Britten and Tippett. He could certainly hold his own well in such company, but he's not the only British 20th century composer of great gifts who has been so sidelined. That said, it really is high time for a proper re-evaluation - nay, evaluation - of his work. ONe thing is certain - and it cannot be said of all of his compatriot colleagues; he rarely wrote below his very considerable best.

I've only listened to Simpson's Ninth Symphony once, on a recording and in the company of David Matthews (who also now has nine symphonies to his credit). I was near speechless; it's a work of tremendous power, even for Simpson, although how the overworked brass players contrived not to run out of lung power in their long notes in its overtly Beethovenian scherzo remains a mystery to me.

[ahinton]

I've never much liked the idea of a piece of music "presenting an argument", that's surely more the sort of thing barristers do. I find Simpson quite a sympathetic character, but when I listen to his music my attention begins to wander away from all that ponderous development churning beneath a dull and colourless surface, or at least that's how I hear it, I'm probably being repelled by the very features others find attractive...

But each to his/her own, surely? I think that what might sit uneasily with you (if you'll pardon my so saying) is an acute and sometimes almost overbearing presence of Beethoven without (for you) the quality of ideas that Beethoven presents; I could be quite wrong, of course, but... A similar presence makes itself felt from time to time in Tippett, although it affects him in quite different ways, it seems to me.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I've never much liked the idea of a piece of music "presenting an argument", that's surely more the sort of thing barristers do.

Not just barristers, though - opening statements in Forum posts can do this too!

I think that I'm closest to Lats in my response to Simpson; I had always greatly admired the symphonies until last year when I had a "Simpson binge" (nothing to do with Elizabethan Serenades) and played the Symphonies several times each - I found myself responding less and less enthusiastically on each hearing, although the Ninth held up very well. Maybe it was just the "wrong" time to do this, and I hope that some of the magic I used to feel returns sometime - but, for the time being, I don't feel any inclination to listen to them again. (He's still a much more rewarding and interesting symphonist for me than Bax, Rawsthorne, or David Matthews - but at the moment it's Alwyn of all the post-war British symphonists I find is bringing the greatest amount of increasing pleasures. Not sure I'd describe that in BeefO's the "stellar" vocabulary, though.)

[Beef Oven!]

Chacun à son gout, of course, but since you ask the question, my answer would be "no", particularly when composers of the stature of Rubbra and Rawsthorne are similarly neglected. The complete cycle of Simpson's 11 symphonies on Hyperion certainly makes for intermittently interesting listening, and Simpson also did a great deal to promote Nielsen's music, for which I'm forever grateful, but "the most neglected, ignored British composer of stellar talent, ever?" - certainly not for me.

I don't think it's about taste. Simpson's neglect is measurable. Rubbra, Rawsthorne et al have not enjoyed similar neglect. The fact that Simpson is a composer of stellar talent is indisputable. Whether one likes his music is another question. My opening sentence was a rhetorical question, anyway.

[Richard Barrett]

The fact that Simpson is a composer of stellar talent is indisputable.

I would say that's a matter of opinion too!

[ahinton]

I would say that's a matter of opinion too!

Indeed - and perhaps also a matter of which level of "stellar magnitude" his talent might be on...

[Beef Oven!]

I would say that's a matter of opinion too!

C'mon!

[kea]

I've never much liked the idea of a piece of music "presenting an argument", that's surely more the sort of thing barristers do. I find Simpson quite a sympathetic character, but when I listen to his music my attention begins to wander away from all that ponderous development churning beneath a dull and colourless surface, or at least that's how I hear it, I'm probably being repelled by the very features others find attractive...

I actually quite like Simpson's use of the orchestra (though it's not unique to him)—the non-orchestral music doesn't hold my attention very well by comparison. At times it sounds like Shostakovich in the posterboard juxtapositions of cleanly demarcated textures, but unlike in Shostakovich the orchestration seems justified by Simpson's musical ideas, and doesn't owe anything to film music. As for the notational content, Simpson bases everything on the characters he attributes to specific intervals, much like Carter does. I personally don't hear any of those characters and at times can't hear the intervals themselves so I think a lot of the content ends up sounding much the same for long stretches of a piece, and therefore the structural turning points can seem arbitrary even though they probably have a well-worked-out basis on paper. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but I do kind of end up listening as though I'm hearing a piece of electronic music where textural mass is the only musical element worth following. This is a "misreading" of Simpson in the lit-crit sense though—that was absolutely not how he approached writing music according to him; he wanted to be listened to as though he were Bruckner. That doesn't really work very well if you're decoupling yourself from every other element of the musical traditions that allowed Bruckner to be Bruckner, imo.

My favourite piece is probably the 7th symphony by the way. I also like the final movement of the 2nd much more than it probably deserves (it's just great fun.... and also something must have been in the air between 1939 and 1953 since a neoclassical, somewhat pastichey finale to a three-movement symphony in the key of B based on a persistent anapaestic rhythm with a prominent part for solo timpani also describes Shostakovich's Symphony No. 6/iii)

[BBMmk2]

Quite agree with you there, Beefy. Forum Members must check out his music for brass band. Equally good as the music in other genres he composed in. I met him just the once, and he was a lovely man to chat too, about his music, in particularly, his brass band work, Energy, that had recently been selected as the chosen set work, for a major brass band contest. This work in particular, is typical of RS. Starts as a chorale like opening, then as each part of the work finishes, the next, gets faster and faster! An exhilarating ending for sure.

Another work for brass band, which I think is surely his master piece, is his Symphony "The Four Temprements". Quite an extended work this, but no less compelling a listen than any other.