Simpson, Robert (1921-1997)

[Beef Oven!]

How dare you judge what my post sought to do. If you think you understand my mind and intention you are completely wrong.

You told us. I dared nothing.

[makropulos]

I don't think it's about taste. Simpson's neglect is measurable. Rubbra, Rawsthorne et al have not enjoyed similar neglect. The fact that Simpson is a composer of stellar talent is indisputable. Whether one likes his music is another question. My opening sentence was a rhetorical question, anyway.

It is entirely a matter of taste: you can't claim that Simpson's "stellar talent is indisputable" and expect people just to believe it as a given - plenty of people here obviously don't hear it that way and I, for one, simply don't share your opinion about Simpson's talent. In short, it's not at all "indisputable".

[kea]

I note that the name of the guest violist on the Quintet could easily be the answer President Trump would give to the question "what do you do at the weekends when it's not golfing weather?" (I'll get my coat.)

I might have a go at some of Simpson's chamber music instead. Partly because some moments of that 9th Symphony seem despite everything to have lodged themselves in my memory.

If you have any luck with it let us know.... I've never made much progress with it, always seemed to be a lot of notes without much in the way of ideas to grasp onto.

It is entirely a matter of taste: you can't claim that Simpson's "stellar talent is indisputable" and expect people just to believe it as a given - plenty of people here obviously don't hear it that way and I, for one, simply don't share your opinion about Simpson's talent. In short, it's not at all "indisputable".

He definitely had talent and I'm not disputing that...... I'm just not entirely sure about the results of what he used his talent for, if that makes sense.

[Beef Oven!]

It is entirely a matter of taste: you can't claim that Simpson's "stellar talent is indisputable" and expect people just to believe it as a given - plenty of people here obviously don't hear it that way and I, for one, simply don't share your opinion about Simpson's talent. In short, it's not at all "indisputable".

I don't expect people to believe Simpson's talent as a given. I am assuming that people will have listened to the music and recognised the fact, whether they like the music or not. Boris Johnson is an extraordinarily talented and bright bloke, but I for one ain't keen on him.

And remember, most people in the world don't like, and aren't interested in the music that we people like.

[edashtav]

It is entirely a matter of taste: you can't claim that Simpson's "stellar talent is indisputable" and expect people just to believe it as a given - plenty of people here obviously don't hear it that way and I, for one, simply don't share your opinion about Simpson's talent. In short, it's not at all "indisputable".

I'm conflicted when writing about "our" Bob: he was a good critic and his views on Nielsen, Bruckner and Brian were pillars of wisdom that shaped, and still sustain, my views of these composers. I sense that many on this board are Bob's children and his best work may have been done in the programming committee of the Third Programme. I have many LPs and CDs of Robert Simpson's works: in the main his symphonies. They have an honoured place on my shelves but when push comes to shove whilst my hands stop at his discs, my brain says, "Ed, move on, you have learned all that you're going to learn from that source." Bob was fascinated by the stellar whether in the firmament or within his fellow composers. I'm with makropulos, his own music shows talent but rarely, for me, escapes from earth's gravity.

[ahinton]

I don't expect people to believe Simpson's talent as a given. I am assuming that people will have listened to the music and recognised the fact, whether they like the music or not. Boris Johnson is an extraordinarily talented and bright bloke, but I for one ain't keen on him.

Well, I never thought that I'd live to see the day when the names Boris Johnson and Robert Simpson were cited in the same paragraph; that said, one might argue that it has a kind of precedent - and, on the face of it, an even more improbable one - in that the entête to chapter 11 of Dr Jesse Norman's book The Big Society: The Anatomy of the New Politics (University of Buckingham Press, 2010) comprises one quote each from David Cameron and Arnold Schönberg...

[Beef Oven!]

I'm conflicted when writing about "our" Bob: he was a good critic and his views on Nielsen, Bruckner and Brian were pillars of wisdom that shaped, and still sustain, my views of these composers. I sense that many on this board are Bob's children and his best work may have been done in the programming committee of the Third Programme. I have many LPs and CDs of Robert Simpson's works: in the main his symphonies. They have an honoured place on my shelves but when push comes to shove whilst my hands stop at his discs, my brain says, "Ed, move on, you have learned all that you're going to learn from that source." Bob was fascinated by the stellar whether in the firmament or within his fellow composers. I'm with makropulos, his own music shows talent but rarely, for me, escapes from earth's gravity.

Very interesting. I'm not understanding the learning bit, though. We move on from a composer or his music when we feel we've learnt? And what does music have to have in order to escape Earth's gravity?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The 'New' Radio 3 Forum is depressingly similar to the old one when this thread's poster is around. Can't the Mods do anything about him?

Well, considering that BeefO has started over 120 Threads, many of them amongst the most popular on the Forum, I for one think that the New Forum would be a lot less active than the old one if we didn't have his contributions.

I just wish that he'd be a bit gentler with some Forumistas who disagreed with him. Please.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Very interesting. I'm not understanding the learning bit, though. We move on from a composer or his music when we feel we've learnt? And what does music have to have in order to escape Earth's gravity?

... for example, like this

[Richard Barrett]

I sense that many on this board are Bob's children

There I was thinking he led a fairly quiet life.

Last night I listened to the CD with Quartet no.12 and Quintet no.1, again not getting through either work to the end. I think there's something about twentieth-century fugues that turns me off, and there seems to be a great deal of that kind of thing in both works. I'm glad that this music exists, if that doesn't sound condescending - it's obviously deeply committed and thoughtful, and its composer seems to have been a person of great integrity in every way (though I don't share his musical enthusiasms that much, with the exception of Bruckner), and with quite a few people it clearly communicates strongly. I don't think I'm likely to become one of them... not yet anyway.

[edashtav]

Very interesting. I'm not understanding the learning bit, though. We move on from a composer or his music when we feel we've learnt? And what does music have to have in order to escape Earth's gravity?

Stellar music, the music of the spheres, keeps on giving, Beefo, earthbound music isn't transcendental, is it? What Bob's music needs to escape earth's shackles is not more or better form but better substance: his materials are unmemorable and tend to be short ... and then... and then... he works them to death in a manner that that is hectoring rather than Hector-like. In the end, they crash back to earth like failed satellites.

[edashtav]

I fear, Beefo, that Simpson inherited one of his flaws from Haverhector Brian.

[Pulcinella]

There I was thinking he led a fairly quiet life.

Last night I listened to the CD with Quartet no.12 and Quintet no.1, again not getting through either work to the end. I think there's something about twentieth-century fugues that turns me off, and there seems to be a great deal of that kind of thing in both works. I'm glad that this music exists, if that doesn't sound condescending - it's obviously deeply committed and thoughtful, and its composer seems to have been a person of great integrity in every way (though I don't share his musical enthusiasms that much, with the exception of Bruckner), and with quite a few people it clearly communicates strongly. I don't think I'm likely to become one of them... not yet anyway.

Even those DSCH wrote for the piano?

I have the Hyperion Simpson symphony set, but can't say I have played all the CDs; might be something to do now R3 is so dire in the mornings.
Any thoughts on his Piano concerto, which I have on a BBC Radio Classics CD (Carlton), c/w Rawsthorne PC2 and Concerto for two pianos?

[Beef Oven!]

Stellar music, the music of the spheres, keeps on giving, Beefo, earthbound music isn't transcendental, is it? What Bob's music needs to escape earth's shackles is not more or better form but better substance: his materials are unmemorable and tend to be short ... and then... and then... he works them to death in a manner that that is hectoring rather than Hector-like. In the end, they crash back to earth like failed satellites.

Thanks for explaining. Perhaps because I'm not trained in music, I'm unaware of what's going on in terms of materials and the extent to which they are being worked. I respond on a visceral level, so maybe Simpson works better for me accordingly (RB said earlier that whether one is music-literate or not doesn't matter, but I'm not sure).

[BBMmk2]

Great shout, BBM

Thanks Beefy, for showing this up. Great playing of his music for brass band hear. I haven't personally played these works at all, unfortunately but the recording, people, should get to know.