Bach, Johann Christian (1735 - 82)

[Tony Halstead]

Today, 5th September 2017, we should celebrate the 282nd birthday of that most neglected composer, J.S Bach's youngest son, Johann Christian.
I find it unbelievable that in all the 122 years of the 'Proms', only ONE of his orchestral works has ever been performed: his very short Symphony Opus 18 no.2, also known as the overture to 'Lucio Silla'. That performance was in the early 1950s.

In or around 1995-1996 Dr Ernest Warburton, the J.C. Bach 'expert par excellence' (1937-2001) and myself wrote to Sir Nicholas Kenyon, suggesting a 'late night ' concert in the Proms, the programme to include JCB's magisterial 3 symphonies for 'double orchestra', Op. 18 nos 1,3, and 5, separated by Mozart works, e.g. The 'Flute and Harp' concerto and maybe one of the violin concertos.

The 'double orchestra' symphonies would sound absolutely magnificent in the vast space of the R.A.H.

Sir Nick replied in a very positive, friendly and courteous way, saying (paraphrased)
'thanks for bringing this to my attention; I am definitely planning to include some J.C. Bach in the Proms as soon as possible'.

Now in 2017, 22 years later, it still hasn't happened!

[french frank]

You've certainly been a very persuasive advocate for the London Bach, Tony. Time to try again?

[Tony Halstead]

You've certainly been a very persuasive advocate for the London Bach, Tony. Time to try again?

Thanks very much, 'ff'!

[MickyD]

This is tragic indeed, Tony. My very first encounter with J.C. Bach was when the AAM released the "Six Favourite Overtures" way back in the 1970s on L'Oiseau Lyre. It's still a treasured disc (did you play on it, or was it rather before your time?!) His music has charmed me ever since, and as I said the other day, how wonderful that CPO committed themselves for you and the Hanover Band to record so much of the orchestral music for posterity.

I made reference recently to some programmes that the AAM recorded specially back in the 70s of J.C. Bach and Abel for Radio 3, which I still have on cassettes. That was seemingly the last time that the BBC ever did anything for the London Bach! It's shameful.

[Tony Halstead]

This is tragic indeed, Tony. My very first encounter with J.C. Bach was when the AAM released the "Six Favourite Overtures" way back in the 1970s on L'Oiseau Lyre. It's still a treasured disc (did you play on it, or was it rather before your time?!) His music has charmed me ever since, and as I said the other day, how wonderful that CPO committed themselves for you and the Hanover Band to record so much of the orchestral music for posterity.

I made reference recently to some programmes that the AAM recorded specially back in the 70s of J.C. Bach and Abel for Radio 3, which I still have on cassettes. That was seemingly the last time that the BBC ever did anything for the London Bach! It's shameful.

Hello MickyD,
Yes I too have that 'Oiseau Lyre' recording and it's lovely! It was recorded 'before my time' with the AAM and I do believe that the horn players on that disc are/ were the late/great Alan Civil and his then wife Shirley.
I played 1st horn with the AAM from about 1986 until about 2010.

NB 'Grumpy old man comment': I do very much regret that the Decca record company 'pulled the plug' on the late
(and much lamented) Chris Hogwood's HAYDN SYMPHONIES as I thought at the time that they were absolutely 'ideally balanced' between some of the O.T.T. continental recordings and the ( dare I say it?) rather dull OAE recordings!

[David-G]

In 2015 University College Opera performed J C Bach's opera "Amadis de Gaule". This proved to be an extraordinarily fine work, and I could not resist revisiting - I went three times in the end.

It is on youtube here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVjddgxjsEM

There is a recording on period instruments under the aegis of the Palazetto Bru Zane, produced with the CDs in a handsome book.

I am listening to the overture as i write. Marvellous stuff!

Highly recommended.

[richardfinegold]

Today, 5th September 2017, we should celebrate the 282nd birthday of that most neglected composer, J.S Bach's youngest son, Johann Christian.
I find it unbelievable that in all the 122 years of the 'Proms', only ONE of his orchestral works has ever been performed: his very short Symphony Opus 18 no.2, also known as the overture to 'Lucio Silla'. That performance was in the early 1950s.

In or around 1995-1996 Dr Ernest Warburton, the J.C. Bach 'expert par excellence' (1937-2001) and myself wrote to Sir Nicholas Kenyon, suggesting a 'late night ' concert in the Proms, the programme to include JCB's magisterial 3 symphonies for 'double orchestra', Op. 18 nos 1,3, and 5, separated by Mozart works, e.g. The 'Flute and Harp' concerto and maybe one of the violin concertos.

The 'double orchestra' symphonies would sound absolutely magnificent in the vast space of the R.A.H.

Sir Nick replied in a very positive, friendly and courteous way, saying (paraphrased)
'thanks for bringing this to my attention; I am definitely planning to include some J.C. Bach in the Proms as soon as possible'.

Now in 2017, 22 years later, it still hasn't happened!

Have the Proms played any of the first half dozen or so Mozart PCs? If so then have played J.C.B., since Mozart arranged his keyboard works in the PC format

[MickyD]

Hello MickyD,
Yes I too have that 'Oiseau Lyre' recording and it's lovely! It was recorded 'before my time' with the AAM and I do believe that the horn players on that disc are/ were the late/great Alan Civil and his then wife Shirley.
I played 1st horn with the AAM from about 1986 until about 2010.

NB 'Grumpy old man comment': I do very much regret that the Decca record company 'pulled the plug' on the late
(and much lamented) Chris Hogwood's HAYDN SYMPHONIES as I thought at the time that they were absolutely 'ideally balanced' between some of the O.T.T. continental recordings and the ( dare I say it?) rather dull OAE recordings!

Oh, the number of times I berated Decca in the past for doing that, Tony! Must admit that I am rather biased, as during the 80s I was a bit of an AAM groupie, helping out at their concerts and writing their Friends newsletter - but that aside, I would still agree with you about Hogwood's Haydn symphonies. To me, Hogwood always seemed to choose ideal tempi and the recorded sound is in the best Decca tradition. Fascinating scholarly notes with each set - it was a crime to axe the cycle, but at least we do have four of the later 'London' symphonies recorded by Hogwood in earlier years, giving us a taste of what might have been for the remainder of the set. I think he once said that he would re-record those again.

Anyway, lucky you being part of that enterprise, what fun you must have had. I remember being at the launch of the symphony cycle on the South Bank, and some AAM musicians playing in a hot air balloon! Were you in the basket?

[Richard Barrett]

the number of times I berated Decca in the past for doing that, Tony!

I don't expect there's one of us here who doesn't regret the incompletion of that cycle. Although, on the bright side, most of the works that were missed out are available in plenty of good recordings, and many of the works that are included have never been done more convincingly.

[Bryn]

... many of the works that are included have never been done more convincingly.

Which made it all the more galling that when they eventually got round to boxing them, first time they left out 76 and 77 which had been passed to the BBCMM, then second time they included those two but substituted Brüggen for many others. So to get all the Hogwoods you had/have to buy both sets or get a copy of the BBCMM cover disc (my copy of which I only found after buying another in a charity shop). At least James Websters' detailed programme notes are available online.

[Tony Halstead]

Have the Proms played any of the first half dozen or so Mozart PCs? If so then have played J.C.B., since Mozart arranged his keyboard works in the PC format

No, none of those early 'Mozart' piano concertos arranged from J.C. Bach's keyboard sonatas have ever been played at the Proms. I found out by looking at the Proms Archive, which gives the date of the only J.C. Bach performance in 122 years as 1950.

[Tony Halstead]

No, none of those early 'Mozart' piano concertos arranged from J.C. Bach's keyboard sonatas have ever been played at the Proms. I found out by looking at the Proms Archive, which gives the date of the only J.C. Bach performance in 122 years as 1950.

I should have said, the fascinating Proms Archive can be found either by navigating to it from this web site, or

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3SsklRvCSPvfHr13wgz6HCJ/proms-performance-archive

[MickyD]

Good points, Richard and Bryn. Yes, not content with discontinuing the series, Decca then rubbed salt into the wound with that hotch potch of collections! As for me, I completed the rest of the cycle with all the recordings made by Sigiswald Kuijken with the OAE and La Petite Bande, both of which sound very fine to me.