Berg, Alban (1885-1935)

[Beef Oven!]

I find the soundworld of it less immediately attractive than those of his orchestral/vocal pieces, less subtle maybe, and the form is somewhat arcane - this and the Sonata are the works of his I listen to the least

I hope I'm not put off! I've been happily enjoying it for years!

I don't listen to the sonata often - which is strange because I quite like the form.

[Richard Barrett]

I've just been listening to Abbado's VPO recording of the Lulu Suite. Absolutely excellent.

[Beef Oven!]

I've just been listening to Abbado's VPO recording of the Lulu Suite. Absolutely excellent.

It's funny how discussions and threads have such an influence. Having read your post, I listened to the Lulu Suite from this CD and I totally agree - it's excellent. But often, when I want to listen to any 2VS, I seem too overlook Abbado foe Dorati, Craft, Levine, Boulez etc.

So thanks, I'll be spinning this disc more often from now on.

It also reminded me of what a great conductor Abbado used to be before he took over the BPO. He was quite a modernist, and I even liked his Verdi! Especially Simon Boccanegra. Was the BPO job his downfall, a distraction? Causation/correlation?

[Petrushka]

It also reminded me of what a great conductor Abbado used to be before he took over the BPO. He was quite a modernist, and I even liked his Verdi! Especially Simon Boccanegra. Was the BPO job his downfall, a distraction? Causation/correlation?

Veering wildly off-topic but Abbado was still a great conductor while with the BPO. However, yes, sadly, I think it was his downfall as it has been for Rattle in a way as well. Happily, despite his illness, Abbado found what he wanted in Lucerne as I think Rattle will do in London.

Sliding back on topic, very surprised that Rattle has never recorded the 3 Orchestral Pieces. I've seen him perform the work twice (CBSO and BPO) and it's a work right up his street.

[Beef Oven!]

Veering wildly off-topic but Abbado was still a great conductor while with the BPO. However, yes, sadly, I think it was his downfall as it has been for Rattle in a way as well. Happily, despite his illness, Abbado found what he wanted in Lucerne as I think Rattle will do in London.

If I'm honest, I haven't really heard much of Abbado's Lucerne recordings. BBM swears by them! I also agree with you about Rattle, I don't think the BPO did him any favours.

Sliding back on topic, very surprised that Rattle has never recorded the 3 Orchestral Pieces. I've seen him perform the work twice (CBSO and BPO) and it's a work right up his street.

Yes, that's strange. Funny enough, a few months ago I was transferring lots of 2VS CDs to an SD card and spent ages looking for Rattle's Berg 3 pieces and finally gave up, realizing it doesn't exist!

[Richard Barrett]

I haven't really heard much of Abbado's Lucerne recordings.

The Mahler symphonies are (I don't use the word lightly) amazing. I didn't like most of what he did with the Berliners, it sometimes seemed almost as if he wasn't trying very hard, but everything else he recorded is up there with the best, in my opinion.

Returning to the Chamber Concerto, I didn't mean to try to put you off it. If I haven't found the key to it yet, that's my problem, and I'm sure I'll find it eventually. As I was saying previously, the other day the op.6 pieces suddenly started sounding transparent to me in a way they never had before. That by the way was courtesy of Abbado's 1972 LSO recording.

[Beef Oven!]

The Mahler symphonies are (I don't use the word lightly) amazing. I didn't like most of what he did with the Berliners, it sometimes seemed almost as if he wasn't trying very hard, but everything else he recorded is up there with the best, in my opinion.

Returning to the Chamber Concerto, I didn't mean to try to put you off it. If I haven't found the key to it yet, that's my problem, and I'm sure I'll find it eventually. As I was saying previously, the other day the op.6 pieces suddenly started sounding transparent to me in a way they never had before. That by the way was courtesy of Abbado's 1972 LSO recording.

The late Mahler recordings with the BPO didn't do a lot for me, although there's little wrong with them, so it kinda dampened any enthusiasm with what he did next. I guess I prejudged it to my detriment. When I've cleared down my current obsessions, I'll check out the Lucerne stuff. Your qualification to the 'amazing' description has landed with me.

Returning to the Chamber Concerto, I wasn't entirely serious about being put off!

I was wondering when Abbado did that Lulu Suite - he'd have been at his most dissident (in an Italian socialist way) in 1972 which I think brought something to the music (but the LSO Lulu Suite is actually ravishing in places).

[Barbirollians]

My only recording of the Berg Chamber Concerto is the Richter on EMI - given a rave review by Gramophone despite ignoring all the metronome markings .

Berg Violin Concerto - I find the Faust/Abbado a little cold - KWC/CSO/Solti remains my favourite as the most emotional rendering I know - the love and pain of her loss is tangible .

Agree with JLW re Dorati - my CD reissue includes the Lyric Suite as well .

[Richard Barrett]

Getting to know, for the first time, the 7 frühe Lieder in the last few days, c/o Anne Sofie von Otter, the VPO and Claudio Abbado. Has anyone else noticed what seem to me various obvious resemblances between these and a smaller number of non-early songs by Richard Strauss?

[Pulcinella]

Getting to know, for the first time, the 7 frühe Lieder in the last few days, c/o Anne Sofie von Otter, the VPO and Claudio Abbado. Has anyone else noticed what seem to me various obvious resemblances between these and a smaller number of non-early songs by Richard Strauss?

Iirc, Die Nachtigall was included in (on?) a promotional LP called Reach out for Boulez (it had the complete Ravel Left-hand concerto, which is what I bought it for), so perhaps that's where I got my love for Strauss' Four last songs from!

PS: Yes, I was right!

https://www.discogs.com/Pierre-Boulez-Reach-Out-For-Boulez/master/1009283

[ahinton]

Getting to know, for the first time, the 7 frühe Lieder in the last few days, c/o Anne Sofie von Otter, the VPO and Claudio Abbado. Has anyone else noticed what seem to me various obvious resemblances between these and a smaller number of non-early songs by Richard Strauss?

Yes, indeed - and (although this thread is obviosuly about Berg), since you mention this, I cannot help but sense some degree of commonality (if that's not too string a word) between Schönberg's Op. 8 songs and the Vier Letzte Lieder (although maybe it's just me); such a pity that these Schönberg songs are so rarely performed...

[Richard Barrett]

On the same disc (which I highly recommend!) are Der Wein, which will probably repay closer study, and the op.6 pieces. This, Abbado's second recording (see OP) of op.6, is even better than the first. I found myself drawn even more deeply into its labyrinthine chains of association between constantly recombining musical cells, and struck by the idea that the third piece has a clear antecedent in Mahler's Rondo-Burleske. In terms of texture and counterpoint, Mahler's movement is of course much simpler (much of it is effectively in two voices), but in both cases the sequence of sometimes overlapping events has an exhilarating complexity - not only is there a lot there, so to speak, but it's all there for a reason which, with close attention, you can hear.

I've also watched three productions of Lulu on video in recent days (yes, I have some time on my hands, for a change). I don't much like the look of the Graham Vick production, or the dull recorded sound of the orchestra, and I'm not so keen on most of the singers either, some of whom needed to work a lot harder on their German, but for me Christine Schäfer brings out how revolutionary and touching Berg's music drama is, like nobody else I've seen. I've read a lot of guff about what the principal character is supposed to "represent", all of which seems prurient and male-centred in comparison with Berg's vision as brought to life by Schäfer - no grotesque exaggerations, no fluttering eyelashes, no overinterpretation, no conflation of Berg's very different concept with Wedekind's original. Despite all the aforementioned issues this is a production that finally fulfils what the score was capable of expressing.

[Joseph K]

The Lyric Suite and String Quartet played by the New Zealand Quartet is excellent.

[teamsaint]

This looks interesting and well researched, but I haven’t read it yet, so can’t vouch for it.

https://www.opusklassiek.nl/componisten/berglecture/mbberglecture.htm

[Beef Oven!]

This looks interesting and well researched, but I haven’t read it yet, so can’t vouch for it.

https://www.opusklassiek.nl/componis...erglecture.htm

A fabulous article - thanks so much for posting it ..........