MacMillan, Sir James Loy (born 1959)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Listening to the past couple of days' programmes, I can't help wondering what his Music would sound like if he hadn't heard The Rite of Spring, El Salon Mexico, and Appalachian Spring. There is promise of a sort in the very early works, but the glimmerings here fizzled out for me very early on.

[doversoul1]

I seem to have missed that Guardian piece. Can you offer a link, perhaps?

This?

https://unherd.com/2019/07/what-has-the-guardian-got-against-classical-music/

[Pulcinella]

And this appears to be the original article he was commenting on:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/04/the-guardian-view-on-classical-music-art-or-status-symbol

[Bella Kemp]

The Seven Last Words is for me one of his finest and most deeply moving works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et8B79uR2Pk

[Pulcinella]

The first broadcast performance of his Short Service will be in the live Choral Evensong from York Minster tomorrow.

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?20572-CE-York-Minster-Wed-17th-July-2019-L

[Bryn]

Thanks. Doversole1 and Pulcinella. Having now read both pieces, it strikes me that the laddie J McM protests far too much. He appears to have aimed at his aunt Sally. Several here have bemoaned the lack of the challenging at this year's Proms. To me, the original Guardian piece is on a similar tack.

[ahinton]

I seem to have missed that Guardian piece. Can you offer a link, perhaps?

Sorry; I should have done that when I referred to it but I see that someone else has now obliged.

[oddoneout]

Is this true? Or is it that not all composers are consistent in the quality of output or the appeal to an individual of their compositions, with or without personal beliefs?

I took an interest in Macmillan’s music in the earlier part of his career but, as with the OP, it has waned over time in the face of the insistent religiosity of almost everything he composes…

from here https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...ment-166937586

[smittims]

Quite a lot ot 'unpack' (as Sam says) here, isn't there?

Yes indeed, composers are often not consistent in the quality of their output: Beethoven was famously uneven. And many composers did indeed write different music for different listeners: think of Elisabeth Lutyens' and RR Bennett's film music: VW writing for amateurs as well as forthe BBC SO, etc. And yes, many composers' personal beliefs affect the music they write,and sometimes its quaility.

But what struck me most about Mr MacMillan's piece and the Guardian article , is that they were talking about politics more than about music, even to the point of 'using' classial music to argue a political or personal belief. I think things tend to fall apart when you do that. I now I'm a simple soul, but I do think it's better to keep music separate from comments on the world.

[Serial_Apologist]

Quite a lot ot 'unpack' (as Sam says) here, isn't there?

Yes indeed, composers are often not consistent in the quality of their output: Beethoven was famously uneven. And many composers did indeed write different music for different listeners: think of Elisabeth Lutyens' and RR Bennett's film music: VW writing for amateurs as well as forthe BBC SO, etc. And yes, many composers' personal beliefs affect the music they write,and sometimes its quaility.

It has often struck me that, since the beginning of the c20 especially, the majority of the most spiritually convincing, let's call it "religious music", has been composed by non-religious or, at any rate, non-conventional religious composers. Think Vaughan Williams, Holst, Bax, Howells, Honegger for a start. The only music of a religious sort by explicitly religious composers that has really moved me was by Messiaen and Lili Boulanger.

But what struck me most about Mr MacMillan's piece and the Guardian article , is that they were talking about politics more than about music, even to the point of 'using' classial music to argue a political or personal belief. I think things tend to fall apart when you do that. I now I'm a simple soul, but I do think it's better to keep music separate from comments on the world.

I have to say I am surprised to see you say this, smittims. A composer's deepest spiritual inspirations will be reflected in his or her music, but also in their politics, if they have any integrity, surely? For me, at least, "integrity" plays a huge part in informing my opinions about music, in general.

[smittims]

Oh yes, indeed, a composer cannot help putting his subconscious thoughts and fears into his music: even Stravinsky did this. But I think commentators on music should try to avoid harnessing a work to express their political views.

I hadn't thought previously about what you say about 20th century religious (or spiritual) music by conventionally-or-unconventionally religious compoosers, but I think you're quite right. Devout 20th-cent. Christian composers do write some fine profound music (Messiaen's Transfiguration sproings to mind) but I always feel there's an element of naivety in it . Maybe it's a casualty of the 'crisis of faith' in a post-scientific age: one doesn't feel that with Handel's Messiah or Mozart's Requiem.

[Serial_Apologist]

Oh yes, indeed, a composer cannot help putting his subconscious thoughts and fears into his music: even Stravinsky did this. But I think commentators on music should try to avoid harnessing a work to express their political views.

I hadn't thought previously about what you say about 20th century religious (or spiritual) music by conventionally-or-unconventionally religious compoosers, but I think you're quite right. Devout 20th-cent. Christian composers do write some fine profound music (Messiaen's Transfiguration sproings to mind) but I always feel there's an element of naivety in it . Maybe it's a casualty of the 'crisis of faith' in a post-scientific age: one doesn't feel that with Handel's Messiah or Mozart's Requiem.

People who might ask me, "Being a non-believer, how can you sing in church services you feel obliged to attend?" - my answer would be along lines that words can be taken as just words, signifiers of whatever meaning different times and belief systems can attribute them, and my emitting them mere vibrations of the air. The music may be said to be choc-full of signifiers, of course, but the energy expended in communal acts of togetherness provide a sense of inner fulfilment to match any other. Like all living species we have the need to belong, reciprocally, this being one activity that, with tact, can elicit the associated sense of togetherness, and I rather think Vaughan Williams, Holst and others saw that as the important factor in hosting regular amateur choral festivals.

[smittims]

Quite so. Without wanting to open a massive can of worms, I should say that many 'religious ' ideas, thoughts and texts are really about how to live a good life, and that can apply to someone who doesn't accept the existence of a supernatural person.

I'm sure that Vaughan Williams' extensive involvement in Christian music and the BIble came from his belief in the English people and their culture. It took some odd forms: for instance he tried to get up a campaign to have the New English Bible banned because he didn't want the language of the Authorized Version to be replaced.

[Serial_Apologist]

Quite so. Without wanting to open a massive can of worms, I should say that many 'religious ' ideas, thoughts and texts are really about how to live a good life, and that can apply to someone who doesn't accept the existence of a supernatural person.

I'm sure that Vaughan Williams' extensive involvement in Christian music and the BIble came from his belief in the English people and their culture. It took some odd forms: for instance he tried to get up a campaign to have the New English Bible banned because he didn't want the language of the Authorized Version to be replaced.

I didn't know that! I have wondered about the modern replacement of the King James version of The Lord's Prayer which really needed no "modernisation". The cynic in me suggests that the shortened version had to fulfill modern-day productive values by declaring all surplus to requirements redundant! Or surplice to requirements!

[smittims]

surplice to requirements