Berlioz, Hector (1803 - 69)

[Daniel]

I often find a wayward and open feeling to B's music, as if he might suddenly do anything, even when he doesn't. Tuba Mirum from the Requiem springing to mind as an example of when he does! And at times irregularity of phrase lengths create a feeling of spontaneity and almost speech-like patterns.
I read the Memoires in my late teens and was struck at how frank it was (hadn't read many autobiographies at that point ..) but also remember once or twice having an uncharitable feeling that he might get over himself a bit, though if I read it now I'm sure I'd be somewhat more sympathetic.

Very much with you re.Colin Davis's Berlioz. He did so very much to re-establish the reputation of HB's music in this country.

I thought he was brilliant in Harold en Italie with Menuhin. I get quite hypnotised in the Marche des Pelerins, the recurring held note reminds me a little of the similar device in the last movt of Schubert's D 960.

In former times when English teachers were allowed some latitude I often used SF as a trigger for writing. Enormously effective.

I always thought the Pierre Petit photo gave Berlioz the look of someone wearied perhaps by a lifetime of attempting to teach geography to fourth formers.

[Dave2002]

I think that JvA might be horrified (or maybe amused) at the idea of incorporating an organ into the Pastoral! I'm about to give the CD a spin but I suspect that the combination of "Viennese instruments", pitch at 440 Hz and the blend of sound from the Bruges hall might have produced an acoustic effect suggestive of an organ lurking somewhere in the mix. The booklet accompanying the box of CDs sets out at some length the reasoning underlying Anima Eterna's approach to the LvB cycle (I've tried but failed to find a copy on the internet to which a link might be posted). Glad that the cycle is being enjoyed!

Immerseel is not, apparently, averse to experimentation as this comment about his recording of the Berlioz symphonie Fantastique suggests - "Immerseel produces a real surprise in the finale of the symphony, though, when he uses a pair of early 19th-century pianos to simulate the bell sounds Berlioz prescribes for the climax of the Witches' Sabbath. Immerseel's reasons as presented in the sleeve notes are plausible enough, though whether the results are convincing is likely to be down to personal taste." Guardian - Andrew Clements. https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...seel-cd-review

I see Barbs didn't like this Berlioz anyway, but so far it sounds OK to me. I've not reached the finale of that symphony yet.

[Barbirollians]

Immerseel is not, apparently, averse to experimentation as this comment about his recording of the Berlioz symphonie Fantastique suggests - "Immerseel produces a real surprise in the finale of the symphony, though, when he uses a pair of early 19th-century pianos to simulate the bell sounds Berlioz prescribes for the climax of the Witches' Sabbath. Immerseel's reasons as presented in the sleeve notes are plausible enough, though whether the results are convincing is likely to be down to personal taste." Guardian - Andrew Clements. https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...seel-cd-review

I see Barbs didn't like this Berlioz anyway, but so far it sounds OK to me. I've not reached the finale of that symphony yet.

The finale is a serious problem IMO . I was not over impressed by the rest of the performance either . In my opinion, the Old Norrington /LCP is a charming and thrilling HIPP account of the Fantastique.

[Dave2002]

The finale is a serious problem IMO . I was not over impressed by the rest of the performance either . In my opinion, the Old Norrington /LCP is a charming and thrilling HIPP account of the Fantastique.

I didn't dislike the finale, nor the rest of the performace, but surely it's stretching things too far to imagine Berlioz wanted to have pianos to produce the bell sounds. That doesn't work at all for me, nor do the partticular pianos sound particularly bell like.

What justification for this did Immerseel come up with?

I did rather like the third movement - which seemed to have a timelesss quality - but others might just feel that it "went on a bit".
I'll try to compare with Norrington - I don't think that's one I have. I'll have to check on Qobuz, though this of course is a diversion from Beethoven.

[cloughie]

I didn't dislike the finale, nor the rest of the performace, but surely it's stretching things too far to imagine Berlioz wanted to have pianos to produce the bell sounds. That doesn't work at all for me, nor do the partticular pianos sound particularly bell like.

What justification for this did Immerseel come up with?

I did rather like the third movement - which seemed to have a timelesss quality - but others might just feel that it "went on a bit".
I'll try to compare with Norrington - I don't think that's one I have. I'll have to check on Qobuz, though this of course is a diversion from Beethoven.

The Norrington is an interesting version but for me the Fantastique is at its best in a full on gallic experience - PCO Argenta or FNRO Martinon do it form - lovely cornet in the latter!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... surely it's stretching things too far to imagine Berlioz wanted to have pianos to produce the bell sounds.

What justification for this did Immerseel come up with?

It's an alternative that Berlioz wrote in the score:

If two bells are not available which are large enough to play the written low C and G sounds, it is better to use pianofortes. If so, then the bell-part must be played in double octaves as written.

So it's the performances that use a higher-than-written Tubular Bell that are further from Berlioz's wishes than the Pianos.

[Bryn]

It's an alternative that Berlioz wrote in the score:

If two bells are not available which are large enough to play the written low C and G sounds, it is better to use pianofortes. If so, then the bell-part must be played in double octaves as written.

So it's the performances that use a higher-than-written Tubular Bell that are further from Berlioz's wishes than the Pianos.

Hmm. So what about Bernstein's metal plates?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Hmm. So what about Bernstein's metal plates?

Not mentioned by Berlioz, alas,

[Petrushka]

Not sure how we've moved on to Berlioz but no matter. I remember a humorous and informative article in Hi-Fi News and Record Review many years ago called 'Hell's Bells and Hector Berlioz' which went into some amusing detail about the ways in which this effect is achieved in recordings. There must be a considerable few more to take into account now and one wishes for an update.

[Dave2002]

Berlioz branch line

I didn’t mean to derail the trains on the Beethoven symphony track. I thought I’d flicked the switch back to the main line, but it seems others have carried on. Maybe that spur could be relocated here.

There are other possibly interesting discussions to be had about Berlioz and performances of his works which could carry on here.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have moved the Berlioz comments from the Beethoven Symphonies Thread to this one.

[Dave2002]

The finale is a serious problem IMO . I was not over impressed by the rest of the performance either . In my opinion, the Old Norrington /LCP is a charming and thrilling HIPP account of the Fantastique.

I went looking for Norrington and Berlioz, and indeed found the LCP version. There are (is) of course newer versions. The comments about RN's SACD version of the Requiem are interesting at amazon - stark contast between 5 stars and 1 stars depending on SACD compatibiley.

[BBMmk2]

Happy Birthday dear Berlioz!

[Cockney Sparrow]

In case it hasn't been mentioned on these boards yet, there are performances of Damnation of Faust (Elder; 10 Feb) and Béatrice and Bénédict (Ludovic Morlot; 16 Feb) at the Bridgwater Hall. I need to visit a relative in Manchester and would like to try the Hall, and really enjoy Berlioz.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

In case it hasn't been mentioned on these boards yet, there are performances of Damnation of Faust (Elder; 10 Feb) and Béatrice and Bénédict (Ludovic Morlot; 16 Feb) at the Bridgwater Hall. I need to visit a relative in Manchester and would like to try the Hall, and really enjoy Berlioz.