While recently discussing the way the combination of timbre and low dynamic level of the celesta in Morton Feldman's For Christian Wolff sometimes serves simply to colour the sound of the flute, rather than function as a discreet sound, I was reminded of the use of the three triangles in the final movement of Messiaen's Éclairs sur l'au-delà.... In some performances the triangles stand out from the strings, but in others they, like the celesta in the Feldman work, subtly shimmer in conjunction with the strings, adding a certain lustre to them. The commission for Éclairs sur l'au-delà... required the exclusion of ondes martenots, which the composer sometimes used to similar effect. I wonder if for Messiaen, the three triangles were seen (heard) as effectively a substitute ondes?
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I just saw that there's a live recording available of Des canyons aux étoiles with Eschenbach conducting the LPO. Has anyone round here heard it? Actually I know they have, because one of our number wrote the liner notes and another wrote a review of it, which made me wonder (this is a question for mahlerei) why the Constant recording wasn't mentioned there. If any recording is a benchmark it's surely that one...? -
You ever hear the Sony blu-spec of the Salonen Canyons? Truly spectacular....I couldn't offer an interpretative comparison but I recall de Leeuw on Naive offering marvellously three-dimensional, wide-ranging sound too - I often played it back in the day (quick spot-sound-check now: lovely cool, deep, weighty character - even better than I recalled!)Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
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I have that very recording by Salonen, and can concur. Rather spectacular!!Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View PostDon’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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I'm afraid I find Salonen's recording flat, uninvolving and totally lacking in the sense of awe and breadth that the music needs. I used to have the CD and got rid of it. Not wishing to be contrary but it just isn't how I think of Messiaen. Constant and Chung on the other hand are more like it.Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View PostComment
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With Turangalila, for me it has to be Le Roux on the 1950s recording, notwithstanding sound quality deficiences: unlike most of the rest I've heard, he makes the more "abstract" movements the work's kernel, (connecting its music with the more radical music he was contemporaneously opening new vistas through), doesn't overdo the bits it's all too easy to overdo, or hang around too long in the, ahem, Garden of Love.Originally posted by Richard Barrett View PostComment
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I directly compared the Sony SBK of the Salonen with this Japanese remaster and the difference (acoustic space, timbral & rhythmic definition, dynamics, atmosphere) is.... considerable. In such dynamically, colouristically and spatially dependent music it does make a significant difference to one's audition and response...Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
Michael Oliver had high praise for the original CBS issue (2/89), and thought it "no whit inferior" to the equally admired Chung in 2/2003...
Just trawling the Gramophone archive further, I'd not realised the key role Marius Constant had in those earlier Erato Messiaen recordings and the reviews do spark one's interest, I must say... I'll try to seek some out...Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 24-03-17, 17:53.Comment
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Not long before the advent of CDs French Decca re-issued that recording on 2 LPs. It sounded far better than my old Vegas (of which I never did manage to get decent pressings, despite several returns).Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
I also reckon the French Decca LPs sounded better than any of the subsequent CD transfers. Surely a decent restoration engineer could do better with it than what has so far appeared on CD?Comment
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I have this much cheaper incarnation of the Salonen Des canyons..... recording:
but remember Richard's comments about it on a previous thread.
I went to a performance in the Sheldonian in Oxford, perhaps with these performers (certainly the London Sinfonietta and Paul Crossley; don't remember the conductor).
Yet another piece to enjoy more in performance than on CD, I would suggest.Comment
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Richard - I've heard Eschenbach, and it's worlds away from Constant's marvellous Erato recording. Like you, I'm unenthusiastic about Salonen's performance of Des Canyons, and none of the others I've heard is as good as Constant. Having said that, as well as Chung (which is estimable in many ways), the other version that I like (a lot) is conducted by Reinbert De Leeuw (originally on Disques Montaigne, latterly on Naive) - it has some fine playing (including Marja Bon as the piano soloist) and De Leeuw is almost as impressive as Constant. Well worth a listen if you want to try an alternative. But to be honest I find I always go back to Constant in the end.Originally posted by Richard Barrett View PostComment
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I'm glad to hear that from you. I'm sure there are plenty of people who think Salonen's performance is very fine, but I have to say I haven't heard a performance of anything conducted by him that has really grabbed me. (Actually I would say the same about Reinbert de Leeuw, I've stayed away from his Messiaen for that reason, but I really should investigate it some time.) A favourite piece of mine that seems to be relatively neglected is Couleurs de la cité celeste, I guess the problem is it's hard to fit it into a programme because it's relatively short but still quite extravagantly scored. But for this we have Boulez on (originally) CBS together with a truly awesome Et exspecto...Originally posted by makropulos View PostComment
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It's a mystery to me too - and very frustrating. I remember how good the French Decca LPs sounded, and how dire (by comparison) the CD transfers sound (particularly galling as I stupidly got rid of the LPs when this performance appeared on CD). Presumably the Decca LPs were a remastering of the original tapes? So somebody must be able to do a better job. And if the tapes are lost or have deteriorated (which I suppose is certainly possibly), then, in extremis, it could be remastered from the Decca LPs.Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View PostComment
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Yes - the best ever Et exspecto for me (by miles) with a performance of Couleurs that I can't imagine anybody matching anytime soon. So I'm very happy to stick with that stunning record. I remember buying the original CBS LP when I was at school and it still sounds stunning on CD. It's a mystery that Boulez's DG remake of Et exspecto is so underwhelming. To a lesser extent I feel the same about his two recordings of the Poèmes pour Mi: I like the old Felicity Palmer/BBC performance enormously, but find the DG remake very uninteresting by comparison.Originally posted by Richard Barrett View PostComment
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I'm going to stick my head up here and say that Andre Previn's recording of Turangalila is ther best one, as I have heard a fair few now.Don’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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