Xenakis, Iannis

[Richard Barrett]

That perfunctoriness - does you experience it anything like the 'here it is, now it's gone' quality I sometimes get in Janacek?

I don't wish to spoil Ligeti's music for anyone by the way, I'm just saying that it's missing some of the qualities I personally find most fascinating, attractive, expressive etc. in late 20th century music. I have to say I don't know Janacek's music so very well but I do mostly tend to avoid those pieces that consist of miniatures, so I much prefer his operas to things like the Sinfonietta. Since he's been mentioned, I think there's a case for saying that Janacek was a more innovative composer than Ligeti, in that his mature style really owes very little to any other music...

[Simon]

Well, Ligeti is an innovator isn't he? the experimenter in music par excellence if you will. I can't think of anyone else who has been able to make a coherent surreally tragic musical composition out of a hundred metronomes, presaging the silencing of the human voice for all time; or able to convey the monstrosity of the machine in various stages of collapse, as in Volumina. A unique musical voice.

Unique, of course.
Voice, undoubtedly.
Musical, occasionally.

The idea that the metronome farce had any musical worth is ludicrous.

[Sir Velo]

I wouldn't really see him like that - I think the "innovatory" qualities of his work often derive from elsewhere.

I don't dispute he had his influences: let's just say that he had a greater gift of alchemy; turning base metal into musical gold than some of the composers you mention.

[Beef Oven]

I don't dispute he had his influences: let's just say that he had a greater gift of alchemy; turning base metal into musical gold than some of the composers you mention.

Let's just say you were right first time

[Richard Barrett]

let's just say that he had a greater gift of alchemy; turning base metal into musical gold than some of the composers you mention.

You may say that if you wish but you're assuming that what he took was base metal and what he turned it into was gold, which is a question of taste: I don't know what you mean by "some" of the two composers I mentioned, but in my probably insufficiently humble opinion Ligeti's music seems limited, unambitious and too tied to received notions of musical beauty and form next to Stockhausen (or Xenakis for that matter). No doubt others will see those as positive qualities of Ligeti's work, however!

[Serial_Apologist]

You may say that if you wish but you're assuming that what he took was base metal and what he turned it into was gold, which is a question of taste: I don't know what you mean by "some" of the two composers I mentioned, but in my probably insufficiently humble opinion Ligeti's music seems limited, unambitious and too tied to received notions of musical beauty and form next to Stockhausen (or Xenakis for that matter). No doubt others will see those as positive qualities of Ligeti's work, however!

As a dyed-in-the-wool Schoenbergian, (like Sandy Goehr, but at least he actually composes!), now knocking on a bit - I would definitely classify myself in among the others! However, I would rather die than overlook and get to grips with the brave souls who continue to expand "the permissible within the empire of sound", as Debussy so wonderfully said of Stravinsky's "Rite" - thereby identifying with those who would confound Varese's remark about artists not, contrary to widespread opinion, being ahead of their time, but rather most people being far behind their's!

[Richard Barrett]

Varese's remark about artists not, contrary to widespread opinion, being ahead of their time, but rather most people being far behind their's!

I might put it more like this: everyone is irrevocably of their time, but some are only able to face backwards...

[Serial_Apologist]

I might put it more like this: everyone is irrevocably of their time, but some are only able to face backwards...

I prefer that version!

[Pianoman]

Since he's been mentioned, I think there's a case for saying that Janacek was a more innovative composer than Ligeti, in that his mature style really owes very little to any other music...

Couldn't agree more - a true original if ever there was one (not that I don't love Ligeti, but you're right about the Bartok influence rearing its head more and more..

[amateur51]

Unique, of course.
Voice, undoubtedly.
Musical, occasionally.

The idea that the metronome farce had any musical worth is ludicrous.

Funf has spoken

[Richard Barrett]

"Musical, occasionally." I wonder if we might be provided with the precious information as to which occasions those might be, since such an assertion obviously implies a broad knowledge of Ligeti's oeuvre.

[french frank]

New topic here.

[MrGongGong]

It was a joke FF
no offence meant



[It's very old joke, past its sell-by date. - ff]

[Quarky]

This may focus minds - Xenakis' complete works - allegedly 170 videos, or thereabouts - for free!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2XBbhtJ-j8&list=PL63AE9BA45350015C

[Bryn]

This may focus minds - Xenakis' complete works - allegedly 170 videos, or thereabouts - for free!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2XBb...AE9BA45350015C

Rather a lot of them are labelled "deleted".