Xenakis, Iannis

[Beef Oven]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yge7GNl5p_k

Played three times so far, very stimulating and most enjoyable.

[Simon]

and one of the children said

"hey, you can design music like you can design a building"

And I bet you failed to say - "No - you can design NOISE and SOUND like you can design a building, but MUSIC is different."

That people with views like yours are involved with our young people is in my view a tragedy. Thank heavens most schools still teach the traditional values, at least at primary stage.

Or did Mozart and Bach get it all wrong?

[amateur51]

And I bet you failed to say - "No - you can design NOISE and SOUND like you can design a building, but MUSIC is different."

That people with views like yours are involved with our young people is in my view a tragedy. Thank heavens most schools still teach the traditional values, at least at primary stage.

Or did Mozart and Bach get it all wrong?

Traditional values? Surely a phrase seen most often these days in the personal advertisements

[MrGongGong]

And I bet you failed to say - "No - you can design NOISE and SOUND like you can design a building, but MUSIC is different."

That people with views like yours are involved with our young people is in my view a tragedy. Thank heavens most schools still teach the traditional values, at least at primary stage.

Or did Mozart and Bach get it all wrong?

No YOU got it very wrong indeed
"Traditional Values" my arse

music is made of SOUND haven't you noticed ?



and what exactly are "views like mine" anyway ?
You really have no idea whatsoever ....... Simon doesn't like Xenakis therefore it's all rubbish

[Beef Oven]

MR GG

BTW, this morning I downloaded the Coagula tool from your link and I've been playing around with it. I am proud to say that I have written the introduction to my Electronic Symphony #1. I will develop this piece over the coming months.

I bet the kids had great fun with this tool. Most stimulating and enjoyable. An excellent way to get at the creativity that resides in young people (that's to say nothing of an old git like me!)
.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Or did Mozart and Bach get it all wrong?

Well, yes - according to the standards of, say, Palestrina and his contemporaries. All those instruments (even trumpets and drums!) in Church Music: those melodies more suited to the tavern than to worship - and as for those harmonies! Where are the intervallic proportions which (as Aristotle demonstrated) reflect the movement of the spheres in God's great creation? I see Bach is a - heaven forgive him - protestant, so such cheap vulgarities are only to be expected, but don't say that the former employee of The Church has been taken in by these new-fangled Newtonian ideas?! There is over a thousand years tradition and learning behind these ideas - does that vile sorceror from a barbaric, heretic country think that Aritotle and Boethius have got it all wrong?

The distance in time between the deaths of Palestrina and Mozart is just under 200 years; that between the deaths of Mozart and Xenakis just over 200. Each created Music that communicated (and questioned) the passions and ideas that most appealed to them in the societies in which they lived. Mozart, the ideals of the Enlightenment; Xenakis, the experience of living through the barbarisms of the Second World War and its aftermath, and the joy of medical developments and scientific discoveries of his own lifetime. All of them found exactly the right Musical sounds - and the exact Musical logic to construct these sounds - necessary for the expression of their ideas, ideals and observations of how people behave.

So; did Bach "get it wrong"? No. Did Mozart "get it wrong"? No. Did Xenakis "get it wrong"? No.

Did Palestrina? Well, yes! The theoretical basis of Classical Music until about 1600 is not merely flawed; it's wrong - for all its eloquent logic. But that didn't stop him from producing some of the most sublime Music conceived by our species.

Even if it isn't as good as Victoria.

[Beef Oven]

[Beef Oven]

Ying-Hsueh Chen's performance of Psappha has more feel and is more 'human' ()

[amateur51]

Well, yes - according to the standards of, say, Palestrina and his contemporaries. All those instruments (even trumpets and drums!) in Church Music: those melodies more suited to the tavern than to worship - and as for those harmonies! Where are the intervallic proportions which (as Aristotle demonstrated) reflect the movement of the spheres in God's great creation? I see Bach is a - heaven forgive him - protestant, so such cheap vulgarities are only to be expected, but don't say that the former employee of The Church has been taken in by these new-fangled Newtonian ideas?! There is over a thousand years tradition and learning behind these ideas - does that vile sorceror from a barbaric, heretic country think that Aritotle and Boethius have got it all wrong?

The distance in time between the deaths of Palestrina and Mozart is just under 200 years; that between the deaths of Mozart and Xenakis just over 200. Each created Music that communicated (and questioned) the passions and ideas that most appealed to them in the societies in which they lived. Mozart, the ideals of the Enlightenment; Xenakis, the experience of living through the barbarisms of the Second World War and its aftermath, and the joy of medical developments and scientific discoveries of his own lifetime. All of them found exactly the right Musical sounds - and the exact Musical logic to construct these sounds - necessary for the expression of their ideas, ideals and observations of how people behave.

So; did Bach "get it wrong"? No. Did Mozart "get it wrong"? No. Did Xenakis "get it wrong"? No.

Did Palestrina? Well, yes! The theoretical basis of Classical Music until about 1600 is not merely flawed; it's wrong - for all its eloquent logic. But that didn't stop him from producing some of the most sublime Music conceived by our species.

Even if it isn't as good as Victoria.

Perkily reflective and pleasingly erudite - many thanks, ferney

[teamsaint]

I have at last got round to listening to some Xenakis, thanks to Gongers' endless prodding.

I wish i had done it earlier. Really enjoying it so far.

Simon seems to me to be self evidently off the mark. Schools have been trying to interest young people in Classical(or whatever you want to call it) music by introducing them to Bach Beethoven Mozart for generations. Not been a notable success, really, I would suggest.
Kids like like new, noisy, different, challenging, quirky, rhythmic etc etc.
let Xenakis and whatever else loose on them I say....and that can include more traditional Classical music, but properly presented. (IE in a way that demonstrates the excitement in the music.)

[Beef Oven]

I have at last got round to listening to some Xenakis, thanks to Gongers' endless prodding.

I wish i had done it earlier. Really enjoying it so far.

Simon seems to me to be self evidently off the mark. Schools have been trying to interest young people in Classical(or whatever you want to call it) music by introducing them to Bach Beethoven Mozart for generations. Not been a notable success, really, I would suggest.
Kids like like new, noisy, different, challenging, quirky, rhythmic etc etc.
let Xenakis and whatever else loose on them I say....and that can include more traditional Classical music, but properly presented. (IE in a way that demonstrates the excitement in the music.)

Simon I think, was being provocative in tone. Allow for that, and many people would agree with him.

I've always loved experimental/avant garde/boundary changing music and I believe the 'traditional' approach to music does not work with young people.

What have all those carnival of the animals type matinees ever achieved?

For me it's about stimulation and getting people going on their instincts.

My view, for what it's worth

[Dave2002]

I rather like Rebonds A and B, and there's this http://open.spotify.com/track/3KXodVRORGnGr1acnXrUnd

[LeMartinPecheur]

Simon seems to me to be self evidently off the mark. Schools have been trying to interest young people in Classical(or whatever you want to call it) music by introducing them to Bach Beethoven Mozart for generations. Not been a notable success, really, I would suggest.

Hang on a min TS (and Beefie). Simon's right - as it worked for me it should work for everybody, I say. Any failures are entirely down to the kids for not paying attention or having proper respect for their elders!

[Simon]

Traditional values? Surely a phrase seen most often these days in the personal advertisements

Yet again you fail to engage with any discussion.

I'm glad to say that, whilst I imagine that what you refer to is something sordid and sexual, I don't know exactly what it means. Fortunately I have no need to involve myself in such things.

[Simon]

"Traditional Values" my arse

music is made of SOUND haven't you noticed ?

I think it might be better if you left out the crude language in future. It isn't a substitute for rational discussion, you know.



All music is indeed sound, I'll give you that.

But not all sound is music.

That's what you need to understand.